Entitlement to wear RAF 'wings'
 

Watching the Remembrance Sunday parade yesterday, on TV, there was reference to an RAFA Ambassador. I was curious/nosey, so found their website and had a scroll through their list of ambassadors and came across Vic Norman: https://rafa.org.uk/about/ambassadors/#norman He is wearing a pair of wings (please don't hijack the thread with discussions about wings/brevets/badges etc!) and I was curious how he is able to wear them because, by all accounts, I cannot see any reference to him having been an RAF pilot.

The idea of "honorary wings" [if such they are] is not entirely novel: a couple of Kings and Winston Churchill sported RAF Flying Badges.
Look no hijack!

I would say this honorary lady is a pilot but does not wear wings on her uniform


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1ef9c91289.jpg




[QUOTE]AP 1358, CHAP 7
Preliminary – Flying. Eagle of drab silk embroidery – on dark blue melton cloth.
(Pilot - QR 728)

0713. When entitled to wear one of the flying badges described at Para 0713, it is to be worn on the left breast of the No 1, 1A, 6 uniform jacket
immediately and centrally above the top line of conventional breast pockets (when fitted) and in a corresponding position on the heavy jersey,
women's dresses. They are not worn on No 3 Dress (CS 95, etc). When medal ribbons are worn, flying badges are to be placed directly above the
top row of medal ribbons, with a space of ¼" (6.5 mm) between the lowest part of the badge and the upper edge of ribbon(s).
a. A flying badge, being a qualification badge, is not to be regarded as either a decoration or the equivalent of a regimental badge.
Service personnel are not to wear any of the badges listed above and in QRs unless authority for them to do so has been granted in
accordance with the regulations prescribed from time to time by the Defence Council.
b. An officer, on ceasing to be employed on flying duties, and an airman on being remustered to a ground trade, unless ordered
otherwise, may elect to wear any of the badges for which he has been previously qualified./QUOTE]

https://rmhistorical.com/files/conte...egulations.pdf


https://assets.publishing.service.go...01_Issue_7.pdf

Is that Carol Vordeman? In what way is she a pilot? Not a QSP. I’m not sure your quotations have done other than strengthen my question about why Vic is wearing wings.

As stated above, it’s really very simple, successfully complete the appropriate course, have the stamp or certificate in your logbook and you’re good to go.

If you read Air Cdr John Clements autobiography “Electronic Airborne Goldfish”, he almost certainly deserved a flying badge but never qualified for its award.

YS

She has a licence and her own aircraft registered N242CV

I take it this is the gentleman in question:

https://www.aerosuperbatics.com/about-us/founder/

Impressive CV but no sign of any entitlement to the flying badge as far as I can see.

Correct, a civilian pilot as is the person mentioned in post one. Except she does not wear any wings and I don’t think he should be either, unless he has been given specific permission, though the MOD has been diluting down their stature by flogging them off for use by various clothing brands

Honarary group captain, so who. made that promotion and why ?

The RAF did, she is the Honorary ambassador for the RAF Cadets, and does an excellent job of it.

see

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles...-flying-award/

Not forgetting that the holder subsequently needs to qualify as combat ready in order to ratify the award. If not, the entitlement is lost.

Someone should "have a word" with Mr Norman, and make an appointment with the Station Tailor. It seems clear that he is not entitled; and his wearing of the Flying Badge (or whatever you want to call it) may be seen as offensive by many.

Wearing of "Wings" is jealously guarded; I see the Prince of Wales wears RAF Wings on his Army uniform(s) - correctly - and his baby brother Harry - also correctly - wears/wore his Army wings on RAF uniform.

[Edited to add:]. Of course I apologise if I've missed something and he is entitled.......

I have no problem with "Honorary Air Commode" (not a misspelling), but "honorary pilot"?

This chap never soloed but no one was brave enough to tell him he couldn't wear the wings.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e7bd6fa617.jpg

Teetering, I don’t think there’s any question. He is a pilot (I knew) but not a QSP.
https://pilotweb.aero/flying/pilot-p...lking-8413820/

I rather doubt that.
"Wings" are awarded for the successful completion of the designated military flying course. Once awarded they cannot be removed, and certainly not for failure to qualify as "combat ready" (which, after all, would be hard for a creamie or transport pilot). One assumes you meant "operational", but even so - have wings keep wings.
No one took my wings away when I was chopped on (RN) AFT - which is the course before OFT. Nor could they.
And the CAA recognised them as qualification for a CPL to boot. Without them there would have been little or no credit towards a CPL at all.

I actually don’t care either way, but it was always my understanding that wings were awarded for a particular flying course but to ratify them you had to become operational on a frontline type (FJ / RW / AT / creamie etc.). Creamie because he is qualified as a QFI on type (operational).

For example. If Bloggs was awarded a Flying Badge but then was chopped on an OCU and re-branched to a ground trade he wouldn’t wear wings? Because he is not aircrew? 🤷🏼‍♂️

There was a pilot chopped from a FJ OCU some years ago who had his wings taken off him. Some time later he passed the same OCU as a nav and had a pretty successful career.

If I recall correctly, the rules for confirmation of 'Wings' changed about 20 years ago when the 'combat ready' (or equivalent) criteria were adopted?

Didn't it used to be something like '6 months on first squadron' ?

I was doing Aircrew Selection at Hornchurch in late 1960 or early '61 and I saw an SAC with 'Wings'. I couldn't ask him as he was riding a bike.

I wasn’t aware of this:

So there is a precedent.

​​​​​​​YS

My father was in the Royal Observer Corps and wore wings. I was giving a presentation to his Group on my war role as a Military Scientific Adviser and what I did with the information they supplied, At the end, I mentioned Dad was hiding at the back and, tongue in cheek, suggested that he might want to buy me a drink as he was incorrectly dressed since we was wearing wings with a Queen's Crown and his should have had a King's Crown. I got away with it, in fact I think he might have been a bit proud of his lad, who was a member of the horfficer class, whereas he was of the generation where you could be a pilot without having rings on your sleeve.

Not sure the owner of a wing walking display team is in the same league as Churchill but, I guess, technically maybe there is precedent. If that’s what has happened or, as Teetering has alluded to, it may be an overzealous order at the tailors.

Not so. In March 1943, the RAF was getting ready to celebrate its 25th anniversary on 1 April of that year. Given Churchill’s key role in the early development of military aviation in the UK — not to mention his other noteworthy contributions to Britain’s survival — and knowing of his earlier valiant efforts to learn to fly, the Air Ministry proposed that he should be awarded honorary pilot’s wings to go with his rank of honorary air commodore. King George VI approved of this decision, and so Churchill was informed that as of 1 April 1943, he was being given the right to wear wings on his uniform, as a special honour.He wrote a letter of thanks to the Air Ministry:

From that point on, Churchill wore his wings. It still didn’t mean he was allowed to fly RAF aircraft, though he was occasionally permitted to take the controls while in flight.

It was also reported in many newspapers in 1943 at the time. Here is the New York Times story:
https://www.nytimes.com/1943/04/02/a...s-coveted.html

Post 21 by NRU74. The man in question was a wartime pilot and he left the RAF but reenlisted in a ground trade - perfectly entitled to the flying badge.

In the years up to about 1970, there were a great many 'other ranks', entitled to wear the flying badge but sadly they are no longer around.

Old Duffer

Old Duffer - Sorry - I wasn't criticising in any way !

Unless the regulations have changed since I left the RAF (they might have, it was almost thirty years ago), the pilot flying badge can, or could, most definitely be taken away after being awarded by the RAF.

My own "Wings" presentation (at RAF Shawbury, rotary wing AFTS, late 1970s) coincided with a Royal Visit. Teeteringhead may well recall this because he was a Wessex QHI there at the time.
Because there were only two of us who were to be awarded with the flying badge (the rest were re-roles and already had theirs), members of the previous course were called back to be re-presented by the said Royal.

Official signals were passed to said officers, telling them to return to Shawbury on said date, minus their recently sewn on wings, but with a "Velcro" patch sewn on their No1 uniform, to receive a new set. Velcro was fairly new back then. The obvious question in reply was - which half of the Velcro? A certain mischievous course member (not me) decided to get in and have fun with this and initiated a series of "spoof" signals, each contradicting the previous one, causing much confusion further down the line. On the Royal day, with hours to go, a certain pilot (who I knew from BFTS) turned up with the incorrect half of the Velcro sewn on his chest. He had to be sent off rather rapidly to get this fixed, to his great annoyance. Thankfully, said presentation went ahead without a hitch and his wings didn't fall off on the day. However, maybe it was a bad omen....

Immediately after my graduation I was posted to the Puma OCU. My predecessor on that course was said pilot with the "wrong" Velcro. Unfortunately, although he passed the Puma course, he didn't make it on the Squadron. He was grounded and subsequently lost the right to wear the wings. He re-roled and did very well elsewhere in a ground branch. I met him a few times afterwards and he definitely didn't wear a flying badge.

I seem to remember (a long time ago!), that once your "Wings" were awarded they remained provisional, until you had completed six months satisfactory operational service. Open to correction!
Bill

From my earlier post

Not sure on the other services but this is the rule for the Army. RN slightly different as they award Wings at the end of OCU(?)

The award of a Pilot’s flying badge is provisional until confirmed in accordance with current rules. When I was awarded my badge it was 6 months on an operational Sqn or, for creamies award of a B1.

Currently I believe it is CR (or maybe (LCR) and B1 for creamies.

The only exception I know of is where an individual is medically downgraded, following an accident say, before they can confirm the award. This is discretionary on a case by case basis.

In my time in the RAN wings were confirmed upon the completion of an OFS, I never did an OFS and hence completed my SL time with provisional wings, that's despite having combat time and receiving a decoration courtesy of Her Majesty and two courtesy of the US. The only OFS's on offer were via Wessex, Tracker or A-4. Things fall through cracks.

An officer with whom I served, was one of a group of pilots who, having completed their training, were told they would not continue as aircrew and were deprived their flying badge. Some years later, the officer was on the staff of someone quite high and influential and he took up the case for those deprived through no fault of their own but were 'victims' of the system. A dispensation was obtained because of the particular circumstances and these officers were allowed to wear the badge, although they did not return to flying duties.

In another case, a Rhodesian who joined the RAF after the country became Zimbabwe, was permitted to wear the RAF badge because during his Rhodesian service he had been graded by RAF 'trappers' who visited his squadron (I think) in Aden.

Old Duffer

I heard of cases where training was terminated prior to the award of 'wings' as the war was ending hence the pilots were not needed.
I believe they were subsequently awarded a slightly different pattern of wings; may have been something to do with the Aircrew Association'?
I saw several of these wings holders in the Air Cadet Gliding movement and no, they weren't 'Glider Pilots' wings (of which I am enititled to wear the basic 'G1' badge without a crown) which were derived from the 'Glider Pilots Regiment' wings.
ADDENDUM
Looking at my logbooks, on 17 Sep 1993 I flew 3 members of the Aircrew Association in a Cyclone AX3 at Halton; they told me about their flying training and how/why it had been curtailed but were in civvies so no badge visible.

In 1965 at Manby we had an SAC (Trade Assistant General) in the Guardroom with wings and a cluster of war medals. Apparently he left the RAF after the war, didn't adapt to civvy life and rejoined as an airman. Occasionally encountered him when doing Orderly Officer duties.

In 1956 [about] there was an airman at RAF Uxbridge [my memory is vague but not useless] who was said to be a wartime VC. I think I was too ignorant to examine rank, flying badge [if any] and medal ribbons, so cannot swear to it, but he did indeed have a great deal of salad spread across his chest and was always pointed out to the newbies. If he had been army he would certainly have been given rank as a corporal. Nice story but I could not stand in the witness box after 67 years.
RAF Uxbridge was home [again memory strains] to the Regiment and the Central Band, also a Main Met. Office. A bit short of aircraft!

As an aside I missed National Service, to my honest regret .......... Met assistants were automatically traded as Met assistants, but my medical history rendered me a bad bet. I was genuinely p$ssed off, being RAF-mad.

No doubt this post will deleted, as most of mine are these days. Be quick or you will miss these enthralling anecdotes.

In 1968 when I was a Flt Cdt at RAFC, Cranwell North aerodrome was used for Chipmunk flying. It had a small ATC cabin which was manned by a couple of rather elderly gents - one of whom sported the Path Finder Force badge as well as his flying badge and medals. He was also kindly spoken towards cadets, unlike many at the College!

One of the strangest I recall was a pilot who left, studied appropriately and was then ordained in the C of E. A few years after that he rejoined as a Padre - and of course wore his wings! Looked very odd.......

That's why chaplains are called Sky Pilots! :ok:

Jack