U.K. Nuclear accidents and incidents
 

A fascinating read charting a path through the U.K. history of nuclear incidents and accidents, to much to post here, fascinating read…

Having done SST standby with normally about a dozen of us on call I find it rather amusing when they talk about the requirement to set up a 5 to 6 mile initial cordon around an incident involving a leak or fire..

https://www.nuclearinfo.org/wp-conte...port-FINAL.pdf

Where do you find this stuff!:D. Forwarding this to a mate who's ex-MOD Police around these things.

Fascinating read indeed, but the authors have a point to make. Classing a Gannet crashing on the flight deck of a carrier as a “nuclear accident” is pushing things a bit.

back in the '80's and early 90's you'd often see convoys heading to/from Burghfield - and on several occasions broken down vehicles surrounded by a large guard of troops.

But really there is not much of an alternative

As an ex Member of the teams that looked after the training and storage of these rounds in the UK on RAF bases there would never have been a live weapon dropped during any loading practices ….the incident in RAF Germany of a weapon falling off its trolley during movement is also not fully factually correct….

They always put up a Puma out of Odiham (about 10 miles south of Burghfield) to 'shadow' these SST movements or alternatively keep one on 'standby' duty.
Whenever there was an 'exercise' deploying GLCMs out of Greenham Common, it seemed the Army Air Corps would cover the task.

I was there for that one.. :)

can you educate us for when I read the document.

I was on one of the Squadrons that used to Stand up on Q with them, when it happened it spread around the Squadrons like wildfire, all be it in hushed tones, obviously it never spread throughout the station as most would be unaware as to what we actually had on the Station or sometimes on the Squadrons..

I was once asked what we did over there by a fireman I knew, who arrived at the same time and shared transit accomodation early in my tour, I simply said we had aircraft on 24hr alert armed with 1000 pounders in case the hooter went off.

He was happy with that, he incidentally queried it because as a fireman they were told to fight any fire on site until their death basically and he couldn't understand why, so even most of the fire service didn't know.

Board of inquiry into the incident.

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....tInGermany.htm

I can remember there was a worry about the Jags sitting in Squadron HAS's armed with 1000 pounders over night and the security aspect after it was found you could cut the padlocks with a bolt cutter on the wicker? doors.. changes were made and super extra strong padlocks were fitted made from Kryptonite or similar... fast forward a few weeks and the fire alarm goes off in one of our HAS with a Jag and 1000 Pounders inside, Trumpton dispatch their finest engines to the said HAS and attempt to cut the padlock off to gain access...
Not a chance, Trumpton then dispatch a fire engine with lights a blazing back across the station and to the guardroom to book the keys out, then head back to the Squadron to unlock the door.... Luckily it was a false alarm. Short order, Kryptonite padlocks binned and normal padlocks refitted.

..

I was on 230 at Gut in the 80s and recall being told that 'Op XYZ' was the highest priority tasking we had in peacetime. Full NBC kit, crew and 'ground party' at or near the a/c. Obviously nobody could confirm or deny why I was on standby!:ok:

CG

I wasted too much of my life sitting in the back of a Puma in Germany along with an interpreter. a medic, a fireman in charge of the biggest fire extinguisher I had ever seen and sundry others waiting for something to not happen, I swear we were stood to before the armourers had even got out of bed in the UK, let alone loaded it and they were probably tucked up in bed again before we were stood down. One of the SST asked what I would do if we really had to deal with an incident, I told him if I was lucky I might get to make tea for the VSO that would undoubtedly turn up to get his picture in the papers, but I reckoned the locals would be dealing with it long before they realised what it was they were dealing with, when we pitched up with out fire extinguisher.

Ninthace, I've told you million times not to exaggerate!:ok: When were you at it?

CG

86 to 89

In fact the whole section entitled "Accidents Involving Nuclear Capable Royal Navy Warships" looks like a load of old tosh.

They did do a nuke shuffle on the way to the Falklands I believe, see

https://falklandstimeline.files.word...task-force.pdf

As I moved from the St Mawgan Nimrod fleet to the storage depot that took in the Navy Weapons …I was able to ask some questions -in that each WE 177 had its own service history …I was told that the storage facility had received some ex Op Corporate rounds in that showed some heat damage …but they were considered safe to move ….and I did the AWRE weapons safety course …..and they came back into service …the real problem the RAF had was ….targets known but not enough on site rounds immediately available for the targets allocated ….
on my last tour the decision was made that the storage area should be a secure area but the interested Officers should be briefed on site as to its role by an on site visit ..heavily guarded by live armed RAFP who were very capable ….and we did very regular 28 day no notice fire drills with the RAF fireman…..it did work …

Met was asked by SASO HQRAFG c. 1995 about the what if ...................

transport aircraft carring a special back to UK crashes and burns in Belgium or Netherands.

Very interesting calculations which were partly beyond me so the Met HQ boffins were involved on a very "just as a theoretical" basis.

Any resulting heat-driven plume might have been very embarrassing in a Westerly.

Purely theoretical of course.

None nukes, the VC10 was tasked with a replenishment flight to RAFG carrying 1000 pounders etc.
As the crew were going through their start up checks the young loadmaster arrived at the cockpit with a fistful of remove before flight safety pins asking where they were suppose to stow them…. Yup you have guessed it, all removed from the bombs stowed in the cabin… flight cancelled, loady briefed on the safety pins and armourers despatched to make the load safe again..

Unbelieveable; you couldn't make it up could you?

. Possibly not for the UK allocated Sqns but those "overseas" certainly had enough - I had more than required.

All the brightest young loadies were sent to Pumas!:ok:

CG

Much of the Vanguard SSBN stuff in that document is based on the fantasy findings of one very mixed up trainee. I was on bombers at the same time William Mc-Naive-ly went through. We all saw his full revelations and reports…(after his massive experience as a trainee SMQ on his first qualifying patrol) and laughed at them. The kid really thought he was onto something. Turns out he was a bit of a fantasist. His writing references Superman and Kryptonite ffs! As for the CB8890…he was a missile weirdo and was expected to know the book back to front. Everyone on the boat was invited to read it as we were tested on the thing every year.:rolleyes: As for not reacting to a possible fire, due to everyone thinking it was another FOST fire on workup is utter bull.

Occasionally a SK (not the bright yellow ones!) would also carry out riding shotgun duties, as I found out during random chatter with a former RAF officer during a defence exhibition.

cheers

Hmm, thought they would be removed before setting sail from Portsmouth...

Brings me to another point of events a decade or so earlier, with the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club and the USS Forestal accident

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...rcraft-carrier

I wonder if the USN did the same and had their bucket of sunshine swiftly removed at say Subic Bay before entering the war..

cheers

So, I'm reading this right - nuclear depth charges were on board vessels with deep magazines as they fought during the Falklands War?
Honestly, this conflict gets more extraordinary the more you learn about it...

No, I don’t think you are. The weapons were transferred off the combatant ships before the shooting began or before they arrived in the area.

USN carriers were stuffed with nukes off Vietnam and conducted loading drills with live weapons between the war zone and Japan. They even lost one overboard in December 1965: https://www.casematepublishing.co.uk/broken-arrow.html

JT

Disembarassed is the phrase. Very often transferred to Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessels and
sent home. Several contentious issues were raised however; RFA vessels berthing in Talcuahano in Chile caused a bit of a stir, although the Chileans let it pass as they were suddenly out best friends. And transiting the Panama Canal; we got away with it. !!

Since I can't believe it would have been announced, are vessels required to state "no nukes" when using these facilities ?

Don't ask, don't tell. SOP is to neither confirm nor deny.

Nor can we confirm nor deny that a weapon (training however depleted uranium and tritium round ) was dropped down the aft lift on Hermes. !! 😉
After the chockheads had had a field day hosing it down and bagging the ensuing sludge the Brains’ trust from Aldermaston arrived and went absolutely harpic. Allegedly.

Yup, watched them come back on the way home. Wondered why I got “the stare” from Wings when I innocently said “Oh, what are those boxes?”

Mog

Ah - my mistake - noted.
Although not strictly an `accident' and not aviation related - am reminded of the extraordinary story in the book The Silent Deep.
RN nuclear sub Captain climbs into inspection tunnel over reactor on submerged sub, and looks down through viewport into reactor chamber to see that it is almost entirely filled to the brim with sea-water!
Not just the cooling circuit - the whole chamber.
Reactor continuing to operate despite this - testimony to RR PWR engineering.
Trying to find the name of the vessel...

CND used to kindly leave directions on the M4 for the drivers so they did not miss the turn off to Burghfield.

Yes extraordinary indeed. So extraordinary it sounds like bollocks.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d8edc0ae8.jpeg
Reactor ( kettle ). No tunnels anywhere. Although there is a separate access. The opening of which notified Burghfield /Aldermaston immediately. Interesting aside, also the venue for Sunday service.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....96e7ea2e5.jpeg
Our Russki friends. With their superior attitude to Elf and Safety. And their superior control rods.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....602470691.jpeg
What RADHAZ ?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....27b4190c1.jpeg
Final drift, Typhoon class bagna, sauna and recreation area. Water an interesting shade of green. Hopefully not connected to the feed water.

My friend - it is not bollocks.
I will believe Peter Hennessy and James Jinks over you any day of the week.
The book is excellent, and meticulously researched.
You should read it.
I'm now going to go and find the exact anecdote...

EDIT: Page 335 - The boat was HMS Valiant in 1977.
And the quote, from the late Vice-Admiral Sir John Coward KCB, DSO - who was Captain at the time.

"Coward went back to the reinforced tunnel over the top of the reactor compartment in the bottom of which was a glass window that could be used to see into the unmanned reactor compartment.
'It looked like a huge cathedral of machinery, brightly lit, lovely and quiet, but you can't get in it because of the radiation,' recalled Coward.
`But we couldn't see any of that because five feet below the window was the shimmering surface of the Mediterranean.
We had embarked god knows how many hundred tons of seawater into the reactor compartment.'
A salt water services pipe situated in the reactor compartment had fractured, causing sea water to flood into the compartment..."

Page 357 "...the fact that Valiant had continued to operate while under such conditions was a testament to the designers of the PWR1 nuclear reactor... `...it was so well constructed, so well insulated and so well clad that it didn't mind running in seawater, ' said Coward.

Separately accounted here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Valiant_(S102)

Again, I would highly recommend this excellent book.
The access the authors got in writing it is amazing - on board during a Perisher course for example.
They also capture in meticulous detail the geopolitics of the UK trying to convince Rickover to share nuclear secrets.
That puts AUKUS in perspective...

IIRC, austenitic stainless steel is used in the construction of the PWR and the primary loop. Austenitic stainless steel is vulnerable to stress corrosion in the presence of chloride ions. There are a lot of chloride ions in sea water.

MENALAUS's image is of the reactor service compartment aka the 'Tunnel' of HMS Sceptre, and I would take the late VAdm Coward at his word (as long as it wasn't about aircraft recognition :}). So not a tunnel as might be imagined - assuming the Valiant's RSC was similar in layout to the Swiftsures'. Only ever invited onboard an O-boat so no personal experience of SSNs.