Hawk problems at Valley
 

Surely it must be time for another wheel to come off the Hawk T2 fleet.

We’ve not had a problem for a while, and a failure of the aircraft, might divert attention from the piss poor performance of the training provider.

Just a thought.

There's another thread running on this where people who seem to be in the know point the finger elsewhere.

WP's poking because this one isn't out of the bag (yet) and it appears 'people ' either aren't in the know or are keeping zip lip.

In the know
 

Don’t tell them your name, Pike.

Maybe this is another part of CAS’s cunning plan to do away with actual aircraft and do everything synthetically.

Responses from Wales
 

Is nobody going to go public about this?

You clearly know more than you are letting on so how about you going public? Or are you just 5hit stirring?

OK lets try this then.
Putin is known to favour clandestine means of eliminating his enemies.
Not only his warships but his fishing boats (ever heard the term 'Russian Trawlers') often operate close to our shores.
Huge numbers of lobsters and crabs in specific waters off the north east coast of England are dying due to some heretofore 'unknown' type of virus killing the crustacea; the government don't appear to know what this virus is or how it got there to cause such devastation.
Putin is fully capable of getting his minions to develop such a virus; he also has the means (via the aforementioned trawlers) to 'seed' the local waters off Whitby and elsewhere with it.
He knows he's on a hiding to nothing with his present campaign against Ukraine so he turns to other means to try to destroy our fishing industry.
Fantasy? You tell me; I think it's perfectly feasible (and no I don't like lobsters or crabs; can't stand the taste)

Fantasy

Much more likely its the local heavy industry.

have you ever seen Teesside - steel works, chemical works, a nuclear power station, a landing/processing point for N Sea oil and gas, ship breaking................ who needs Russian Science when capitalism can do such a good job?

After all they have a lot of previous form - just look around the rest of the NE of England.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....68aafa0410.gif
They think I’m a Russian Trawler!😂

Are you in the right thread?

My first UAS Summer Camp was at Binbrook in 1967, home in those days to 5(AC) Squadron, flying Lightning F6s. We were allowed to sit in on the daily Station Briefings and I remember that the locations of the 'Russian Trawlers' were pointed out - one in the North Sea and one in the Irish Sea.

I also remember that when we flew cross-country and talked to RAF ATC en-route, we used the appropriate tri-graph callsign prefix and had to identify our aircraft type as "Single Piston". I bet that fooled the Russians bobbing about in their trawlers! :)

Already ruled out by the 'official' lnquiry.

That's all right then... :rolleyes:

Still not spotted the connection to Hawks at Valley, though I'm sure the Whitby Fishermen’s Association are flattered by the attention

The original discussion was getting bogged down by people implying they know but they're not telling so I thought I'd liven it up a bit.
The strange 'virus' affecting crustacea is genuine and has been widely reported on some media channels but not as far as I'm aware, the Daily Wail so most of you will not be aware of it until you order your favourite seafoods and find they are not on the menu.

You're suggesting its a pincer attack? Don't think that would work here (although I hear it crushed Asia).

Jet Set did nay have any problems
 

This was a happy bunch of newly graduates from Bangor's finest oops sorry twas a decade ago and it was T1


cheers

Valley
 

Well, there you go

royal-air-force-grounds-its-entire-fleet-of-fast-jet-training-aircraft-due-to-engine-problem

http://news.sky.com/story/royal-air-...oblem-12795301

Did Sky pay you well for your information, Warren Peace?

C’mon old guy, you are better than that.

This was never gonna be kept quiet. MoD sat in this fir a week. Since I knew, loads of folk knew.

There's only a penny packet full of them as well. Perhaps another contributory factor to the pilot training, or rather availability, shortage.

FB

Wonder how many T Mk 1s we have in store?

Be having problems with C/T soon then; have to get some T1s out of storage.

Hawk engine problems? Surely not... Time to bin that tired old dog and get something more relevant. And please, before the old and bolds pile on, this is 2023.

Enlighten us...

When CAS gets his inevitable summons for a bollocking from SofS, I wonder if he will have the cojones to point out that the RAF didn't want the Hawk T2, and was forced to buy it following the political intervention of a certain J. Prescott, then Deputy PM with a constituency near a BAES plant. And then go on to say that RAF capability in general would benefit from rather less manipulation of procurement by ministers with constituencies near BAES plants. I mean, it's not as if Wiggy has a shot at CDS, so he has nothing to lose, and he might even be able to retire with a slightly clearer conscience...

"and he might even be able to retire with a slightly clearer conscience..."

yeah but he'd lose a grade in the "Retirement Honours" stakes

So, if not the T2, what should the RAF be using for AJT? I do recall the late, great John Farley writing on here as to why the T2 was the wrong choice.

Advanced Hawk? T-50? T-7?

OK, I'm biased, but.... The RAF took a lot of persuasion to accept that they were getting a completely upgraded capability rather than a rehashed T.1. I'll admit it doesn't fly like an F-16, but does it have to ? Even now the RAAF want to keep the earlier Mk.127 going. IMHO, elements of the contracts with HIOS and Ascent have affected availability and the current engine problems have really put a downer on things. One thing that springs to mind is that the RAF middle management didn't have sunnier climes for the gravy train to meetings etc. (F-35 is a prime example).
Thankfully, Mr. Prescotts intervention provided continued work for 1000's of people for another 15+years, not only in East Yorkshire, that must be worth something?

A simple solution for all of this.
 

Well maybe the T1 needs a new lease of life. By using the Red airframes, and the best of what 100 Squadron scrapped, and the very successful pilot production system that 100 had going, then the backlog in the pilot training pipeline could be fixed in months.

Bae Systems should have the decency to resolve T1 spares problems, as it’s their product, fitted with a Rolls Royce engine, that has created a need to use the T1.

As for losing the Reds, who's mad enough to prevent the training of more pilots, just to show what the RAF was once able to produce, but nowadays can’t?

Arguably the Finns ended up with the best Hawk upgrade variant after fitting the Ex Swiss Mk66's with a glass cockpit.
The T2 has too much gubbins squeezed into too little space (amongst other problems).

They clearly haven't been grounded, as ZB131 & ZB133 are currently flying around North Wales right now.....

]
They are Qatarii Mk.167's (T.2A's)

The aircraft that are grounded have a different engine.

At the time, and for decades thereafter, MoD default policy was to seek 15 years guaranteed support. If it wanted more, then it had to provide ample notice, and contract it.

If BAeS are to resolve problems on T.1, who would pay for it? This is dangerously close to the Health and Safety Executive's formal position in the Sean Cunningham case (which MoD did not disagree with) that when MoD cancelled Martin-Baker contacts in 1983 the company should have continued doing the work free of charge. That, having accepted the initial contract, their liability remained in perpetuity and was 'non-delegable', regardless of contract cover.

Aah.....sneaky.

I suppose they can afford the stuff that works....:rolleyes:


Time to get the rattle cans out then, for some quick in the field repaints and press those shiny old red things into service as a stop gap.

Solution
 

Tucumseh, I am not suggesting thet Bae Systems provide parts free, as the warranty on the T1 fleet is well expired. They have been reluctant to sell the spares, to promote the sales of T2 which now turns out to be no use.

This is just a solution, which is what the SofS instructed the RAF to find.

Some guys went from T1 at Leeming to Typhoon OCU so the T2 is not essential.

The alternative is for RR to say the existing engine is safe to fly. Based on last week, who is going to sign that off?

Less than 40 T1s available
 

Last figure I saw a few months ago was less than 40 total Hawk Mk 1 remaining; divided between Red Arrows, AMRO at Valley and storage at Shawbury. I would guess the rest were quickly SOC or RTP after last March, before anyone could see how bad they (or the records) were. There might even be difficulty certifying the parts, let alone the wholes.

At a guess, other than RAFAT, no more than a handful could be made available to fly safely, at less than a few months notice.

LFH

I don’t see any other solution being in place any sooner.

100 Squadron only had six jets available most days, yet they taught pilots, as well as doing the red air task at the same time.