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Prince William’s hat
Why can’t the Prince of Wales get a new SD Cap?
The one he wears is in a **** state. He’s setting a poor example. |
Did not his grandmother say "wear the fox hat" to his father, on his visiting RAF Laarbruch?
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I had been about to remark on it myself. 1960 Cranwell that would have been regarded as a "bashed" hat. Achieved by dipping it in a fire bucket, and stuffing it in the top of a flying boot. The old d'Artagnan style boot.. The few brave/rash souls who did, soon found themselves told to buy a new one. Apart from Dad, who is going to tell him?
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Do Bates still make their 'bashable'? My '1000' mission bashable was auctioned off on the squadron when I left ....
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Sadly, the real BATES hat is no more. If somebody could acquire the pattern etc, they could make a fortune.
Now the RAF issues just about everything from 'stores'. I used to get all my uniform fro Al Wai Lam in Hong Kong - now long gone of course!! Old Duffer |
Alright you old piano torchers - illuminate an ignoramus of RAF matters - what's wrong with it?
Looks smart? https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f9295f3a86.jpg |
"1960 Cranwell that would have been regarded as a "bashed" hat."
I hate to tell you but it's now 2023.................. that's further away from 1960 Cranwell than the Battle of Omdurman |
I hate to tell you but it's now 2023.................. that's further away from 1960 Cranwell than the Battle of Omdurman |
that's further away from 1960 Cranwell than the Battle of Omdurman |
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Originally Posted by oxenos
(Post 11370036)
I do realise thar. I would rather not be reminded of it.
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That hat looks like it has been curled up or had elastic bands round it!
I had a couple of occasions in my career being pulled up about my hat. First was fresh out of IOT when a WO was stood behind me in stores and noticed I was holding my new hat in a manner to pull the sides down (I was). Second was when I was a first/second tourist trying to attain a hat like the old spec aircrew types that was so battered there was no solid structure left to the thing. My CO made me buy a new hat. Once I had bought the new hat, I did realise it wasn't cool to have a battered looking uniform. |
Alright you old piano torchers - illuminate an ignoramus of RAF matters - what's wrong with it?
Looks smart? It lacks that essential flat-topped, first-day-on the-job elegance of the 'newbie' London bus conductor. The alternative to the 'bashed' hat process was upwards of a thousand hours with headphones worn over the top ! |
You'd prefer he wore a North Korean General's frisbee hat?
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I believe my father achieved the required look to his SD hat by wearing his headphones over his hat while flying Catalinas for extended periods. I just had two, one for every day and one for best. Still managed to get through several hats even so, as the ready use hat got too disreputable and the Sunday hat got downgraded and replaced,
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Oh the dreaded "saddle" - verboten!
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Originally Posted by Auxtank
(Post 11369998)
Alright you old piano torchers - illuminate an ignoramus of RAF matters - what's wrong with it?
Looks smart? https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f9295f3a86.jpg |
Jack Currie in 'Lancaster Target', had the misfortune of having his service dress cap removed from the entrance hall of the sergeants mess. It had taken him nearly two years to crumple it into a comfortable ravaged condition ( turning a neutral colour in the process) , it fitted his head like a glove. He was most indignant.
A battered 'Ops cap' was most prized by operational crew, signifying long service, even if that wasn't the case. |
My guess is that he wanted to indicate that his flying was operational and not mainly for leisure. Good for him.
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With respect to uniform hats in general (and a slight thread drift), the RN caps of the 60s (white plastic top) had a metal grommet inside to keep the top taut.
None of us wanted to bear any resemblance to the Chieffie, i/c "parade training" at BRNC, with a hat as flat as a mortar board. However, should any hat appear to be battle damaged, the first instruction was "off caps" and the presence of said grommet was checked - 5 days ROB should it have been removed ! Answer - one could remove the grommet and shorten it by about an inch with a pair of wire cutters........ Result - hat now looked more respectable, the grommet check drew a blank, and we now bore less of a passing resemblance to the local milk man. Even better, later on, when flying suits with epaulettes and caps were considered adequate uniform during the working day, stuffing it behind the aircraft seat gave it a definite "experienced ace" appearance ! |
Anyone who went to CX in the 90s remember the Wh*t**e hat ? Kept on top of a locker and worn when rostered with him. He would sign a check or training flight off only after establishing that the bamboo ring was in place. Hat returned to locker room for next guy. A steel dry cleaners coat hanger was good for putting a bash in.
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The Boss once fed my aged SD cap to vascodegama's snoozing labrador.... I managed to recover it from the happy lab's jaws, but it was in rather a sorry, soggy state...and the strap had been eaten. So my hitherto 'cere' SD cap reserved for parades, weddings and bollockings had to be re-assigned for daily use and the dog-cap was stuffed away at the bottom of my headset bag...
Just as well, because someone stole my good cap at Incirlik, so I had to use the strapless dog-cap but fortunately didn't need to wear it very often as the flight line was a no-hat area. I bought a new one when I got back, which was delivered quite quickly. I think it was a proper Bates one, but came with a horrid plastic strap rather than a proper leather one. That served me well - until in 2003 I needed a new one. That came from stores and was the cheapest, best made and smartest one I ever had. Less than £20, which I couldn't believe! |
I have 2. One for best and then “the other one”.
It sat in a box in the garage for 15 years during my civilian career and was fished out for FTRS. It was white with mould and was soaked in a bucket of disinfectant for 2 days to get it fit for use. It’s absolutely minging with no shape and very little colour. I love it |
Non-uniformity within RAF uniform is a part of its psyche. It’s all a part of the Air Force Spirit developed over a number of years. AVM Dr Fin Monahan DFC calls it “affected nonchalance’ if you listen to one of his lectures on organisational culture. You can read his thesis here: https://etheses.bham.ac.uk//id/eprin...nahan18PhD.pdf
This is what he wrote about the “Operational” or “Bomber” SD Hat in his thesis: the majority of uniform rejection was in the form of modifications that affirmed the owner’s membership of an elite. The RAF blue with silk scarf, red silk lined jacket and top button undone was, for instance, symbolic of the romanticism, dash and élan of the fighter pilot. A scruffy crushed hat, meanwhile, was typical of bomber aircrews. Different ways of wearing the uniform were representations of the strong silos that existed between subcultural elements of the RAF. The air force was characterized by an apparently relaxed attitude towards discipline, uniform, and deportment which stood in marked contrast to the standards maintained by the army and navy. However, the uniform was also ritualistically worn incorrectly; RAF personnel had a counter-institutional relationship. The formation of the RAF was not to have an immediate effect upon the flamboyant taste and sense of dress that many pilots and observers had openly flaunted for a number of years...it was thought to be important for morale that officers should be allowed to express themselves in their own fashion Another aspect of the R.A.F. dress which struck “the brown job”, as they called their brothers in the Army, was the way in which so many officers and airmen wore their uniforms, and here I noticed that aircrew were usually the worst offenders. One could perhaps forgive the undone top jacket button of the “Fighter Boy”, but not the slovenliness so widespread on some R.A.F. Stations – the flapping jackets, the crushed and dirty caps, the undone buttons.7 Bravo PoW for continuing our culture and traditions :ok: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d2256989d.jpeg An example of how a flat top hat looks… https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....cd0896979.jpeg An example of Combat Ready RAF Aircrew in No 1 uniform and someone else dressing up as honorary RAF. |
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More years ago than I care to remember, I was laying a wreath on behalf of 12 (B) Squadron at a reunion of the ‘Wickenby Register’ - the 12(B) and 626 Squadrons’ Association. The ‘old boys’ were, mostly, ‘Main Force’ Lancaster veterans! I was wearing No 1s, and over the years, my SD hat had been stuffed in Nav Bags, been folded into flying suit pockets, and (naughtily, I admit) been jammed down the side of the jet’s ‘bang seat’…and it really was in pretty rag order!
As we were lining up to lay the wreath, one of the ‘old and bold’ commented on the state of my hat!! Jokingly I said that it was my ‘Op Hat’! He smiled at me and replied…’Jim, I did 30 ops, 20 of them over Germany, and my hat was nowhere in the **** state that yours is’!!!! 🤷♂️😂 Next day an order was placed for a new SD Hat from Messrs Gieves and Hawkes!!! 😉 PS…thread drift, but I always thought that RAF SH mates, as far as their idiosyncratic selection of flying kit was concerned, were the true heirs and successors of the Desert Air Force!!! 😎 |
Even in Civvie Strasse blokes still strive for a 40-JFKs Ops hat. I worked hard to make mine as wide and flat as a helipad.
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https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....446c1a06e.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c3bfbbafb.jpeg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....63f298f18.jpeg Some WW2 USAF dress code humour from Bob Stevens’ very funny book “There I was…flat on my back.” |
In WW2 my father (RAAF) was attached to an RAF squadron flying Halifax out of Libya, living in the desert. Being from Oz, he didn't have any support in the desert re new uniforms, so after 2 tours they were looking a bit ratty. He had also been promoted from Plt Off to Sqn Ldr in 1 year and earned a DFC.
He was sent to the UK for a break. On landing at the RAF base, the officious little Flt Lt Duty Officer called this scruffy-looking Plt Off to attention and ordered him to go to the equipment store for a fresh kit and report back to him for inspection. Yessir, right away sir, toddles off to the store. Then, fitted out in a fresh uniform with Sqn Ldr stripes he then fronts the Duty Officer, "Well, Flight Lieutenant, did you have something to say to me?" "....ummmm...no sir..." |
SD Hat
In the mid 70’s I was on I suppose my 4th tour wearing my original Herbert Chappel hat. By then it had turned a nice shade of green and was down at the edges. My role in those days was constant detachment to Europe living in the field so I purchased a chip basket and left the SD item hanging on the antlers of a deer head in the crew room. Over the months, my SD hat would disappear only to be returned some weeks later to its antler home. By then, I had decided that my future headgear should remain flat and easily stowed in my flying suit leg pockets.
Upon posting, I elected to bequeath my SD hat to the squadron as a useful reserve for those in temporary need. I wonder if it is still serving a vital purpose? |
Originally Posted by Sue Vêtements
(Post 11370238)
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Originally Posted by cheekychimp
(Post 11370594)
No, that's a Nazi in a jaunty hat. Looking forward to the "but he's an honourable Aircrew German, not a Nazi" comments.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....23d8dd645.jpeg |
I passed my SD hat on to FZjr with the warning that it had been banned on one station by the CO.
However he still wore it, on his station an executive demanded to know where he been to get "That Hat". He said that it had been his father's, pause ... "Oh that's alright then" |
Originally Posted by iRaven
(Post 11370600)
Hmmm, know him well then? Galland was not a favourite of Goring or Himmler, in 1944 he came within an ace of being arrested and punished or executed. His stardom as a German ace saved him as Hitler intervened due to his popularity. Also Bob Stanford-Tuck and Douglas Bader seemed to like him a lot and got on well with him. Stanford-Tuck was even asked by Galland to be Godfather to one of his kids - he accepted. I would trust the judgement of these former foes as the character of this man and as a great fighter pilot, than a bit of mud slinging on Prune!
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....23d8dd645.jpeg |
" Christopher Foxley- Norris thought 'Galland was a ****'."
I thought that was a default setting for a lot of "Aces". Bader is a prime example - and I've met him |
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....07834885c.jpeg
Personally, I think Will’s hat shows a certain style reminiscent of a time when style meant something. (St Athan 1963) |
Originally Posted by Asturias56
(Post 11370719)
" Christopher Foxley- Norris thought 'Galland was a ****'."
I thought that was a default setting for a lot of "Aces". Bader is a prime example - and I've met him My best customer was [name-drop] Mickey Martin of Dambuster fame, although he cadged my fags routinely. The older I get the better I used to be .................. |
Originally Posted by oldmansquipper
(Post 11370797)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....07834885c.jpeg
Personally, I think Will’s hat shows a certain style reminiscent of a time when style meant something. (St Athan 1963) I have never managed to find out when GCBs ceased to be awarded. My father wore one in 1945, and they go back in RAF time to 1919. T E Lawrence wore two a little later. |
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