Royal New Zealand Navy
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/20...-lack-of-crew/
A third of New Zealand’s Navy ships are docked over lack of crew WELLINGTON, New Zealand — Three of the Royal New Zealand Navy’s nine ships are now docked at the Devonport naval base indefinitely, due to insufficient personnel. The 279-foot offshore patrol vessel HMNZS Wellington is now the third ship to enter a period of idleness, joining the Navy’s other offshore patrol vessel HMNZS Otago and one of the two remaining 180-foot inshore patrol vessels HMZNS Hawea. Chief of Defence Force Air Marshal Kevin Short declared the move would free up engineering personnel amid a workforce attrition. Placing a ship into care and custody will consolidate the workforce and allow better management of the effects of attrition, he argued. Asked if the decision would enable the rest of the Navy’s fleet to remain operational, a service spokesperson told Defense News that depends on several factors. “If the current attrition rate of 16.5% can be arrested, it is expected [that we] will have sufficient sailors to operate the rest of the fleet,” the spokesperson said. “However, there remains a level of uncertainty until this attrition rate is reversed. This requires a number of initiatives to take effect, including addressing the widening gap between our sailor remuneration and what the highly competitive job market is offering.” But pay is not necessarily the major reason for attrition rates, according to independent defense consultant Gordon Crane. “Many of the personnel ordered to manage quarantine facilities during the COVID epidemic subsequently resigned,” Crane told Defense News. New Zealand sold two inshore patrol vessels to Ireland in March. At the time, Chief of Navy Rear Adm. David Proctor said the two remaining ships (four were built in total) provide important training and command opportunities for junior officers. Now only one inshore patrol vessel — the HMNZS Taupo — remains available, although it has a full work program scheduled for next year, a Navy spokesperson told Defense News. |
A sad reflection but still entitled the Royal New Zealand Navy one hopes!:ok:
Jack |
i don't think there's a navy in the western world that isn't affected buy crew shortages and laid up vessels
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VMT for the "new" title.:ok:
Jack |
NZs national anthem is "God Defend New Zealand". Without a fighter capability or now a navy apparently, their anthem seems more a prayer of request.
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Does New Zealand have have any strategic or economic value and if so, to whom?
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Originally Posted by WB627
(Post 11346199)
Does New Zealand have have any strategic or economic value and if so, to whom?
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To australia, even have add campaign ready to invade it |
Originally Posted by megan
(Post 11346227)
It's a renegade state, used to be part of Australia. :p But I don't think we're about to do a Putin, half their population lives in Oz as it is.
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Does New Zealand have have any strategic or economic value and if so, to whom?
Below are the 15 countries that exported the highest dollar value worth of milk during 2021, encompassing both unsweetened and unsweetened varieties of product.
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Although there are a lot of things that frustrate me about my real home - I expect it will be highly strategically valuable as one of the few places in the world not left molten and glowing if the big balloon goes up.
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Let's look on the bright side though. We've just got our first P-8A Poseidon as an early Christmas present! :)
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A lot of good that would do you - re read "On the Beach" by Shute
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"Without a fighter capability or now a navy apparently, their anthem seems more a prayer of request."
They're thousands of miles from anyone other than Australia. Perhaps they figure they don't really need a fighter capability? |
True enough but it's got to be more reliable than our 757...:O though as an ex P-3 tech, it will be interesting to see how it compares.
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Originally Posted by Lookleft
(Post 11346196)
NZs national anthem is "God Defend New Zealand". Without a fighter capability or now a navy apparently, their anthem seems more a prayer of request.
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Milk? In tankers? With names like "Yoplait Valdez"?
Wouldn't that be a strategic vulnerability without a functioning navy? |
Just looked at Google Earth - 2400 miles to the nearest bit of Indonesia - once you get to 5000 miles you start to reach the nearest bits of Vietnam, Japan and Chile
They're going to need a lot of air to air refuelling for any fighters......... |
Jeez there are a bunch of simpletons on PPrune.
The RNZAF Air Combat Force (ACF) were due to receive F-16 when a change of government canceled the deal and scraped the trusty A-4s. Anyway, like the NZ ant-nuclear policy it all got horribly political now which means that it never gets spoken about in public. Just like comments here, all levels of NZ defence and foreign affairs, and NZ Governments, while fighters were very useful in WWI, II, Vietnam, Falklands, GWI, II, etc etc, the country will bury its head in the sand and hope that nasty critins like CCP and Putin do not exist in the modern 'kind' world. |
Originally Posted by Gooey
(Post 11346622)
Jeez there are a bunch of simpletons on PPrune.
The RNZAF Air Combat Force (ACF) were due to receive F-16 when a change of government canceled the deal and scraped the trusty A-4s. Anyway, like the NZ ant-nuclear policy it all got horribly political now which means that it never gets spoken about in public. Just like comments here, all levels of NZ defence and foreign affairs, and NZ Governments, while fighters were very useful in WWI, II, Vietnam, Falklands, GWI, II, etc etc, the country will bury its head in the sand and hope that nasty critins like CCP and Putin do not exist in the modern 'kind' world. If the RNZN opened up active reservists, they would man every tub they have, and still have more clamouring to get a berth. All it needs are free deck chairs, an esky, and a couple of trolling lines over the transom. When there were 2.5M Kiwis, there were 1.0M boats... kiwis might not fly but they sure can float. |
Originally Posted by tartare
(Post 11346255)
Although there are a lot of things that frustrate me about my real home - I expect it will be highly strategically valuable as one of the few places in the world not left molten and glowing if the big balloon goes up.
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Say what you like (and no doubt you will) but down here we've got a pretty pragmatic view about defence. Rather than run around banging a gong about how we used to rule the seas, we know we've got 5 million population and a limited defence budget. Primary requirements to provide some fishery protection and a lot of disaster relief and support to the local region. No need to try and show off to prove things. We're very good at actually doing what we do. How are your new carriers doing by the way? :rolleyes:
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Who said Oz was my real home?
I'm just resident here - banking their dosh and holding one of their passports, alongside the kiwi one. Asturias56 read the book - saw the film - now read the science. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/exp...or-nuclear-war It wouldn't be a Shute scenario - but also wouldn't be pretty by any means... |
Yer lets in all them wooly woofters and Arthur-Martha’s into the navy, what’d yer expect would happen..:hmm:
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"Without a fighter capability or now a navy apparently, their anthem seems more a prayer of request." They're thousands of miles from anyone other than Australia. Perhaps they figure they don't really need a fighter capability? |
Originally Posted by Lookleft
(Post 11346854)
So is Australia but we still have a defense capability. We often use it to support Western nations in wars that are closer to them than to us.
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Not always very popular in Australia tho' |
Originally Posted by Lookleft
(Post 11347015)
True and that goes all the way back to WW1 when two votes to introduce conscription were voted down. It doesn't mean Australia just says we are too far to worry about anyone invading us so lets not have an effective defense force. NZ should start to understand that defense capability can take longer to establish than the geo-political situation will give you time to do so.
Back in 1937 a Mr John Curtin, Federal Leader of the Australian Labor Party, said: ”..Australia cannot depend on the so-called Australian Navy..” The full article offers a the background to that comment…. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/148319333 |
Rather than run around banging a gong about how we used to rule the seas, we know we've got 5 million population and a limited defence budget. Primary requirements to provide some fishery protection…… Not doing so well with even such a narrow task list…. |
Originally Posted by Lookleft
(Post 11346854)
So is Australia but we still have a defense capability. We often use it to support Western nations in wars that are closer to them than to us.
Jack |
People's attitude toward the armed forces as a career down here, has had a huge effect on recruitment. I have been asked many times "Why are you in the Air Force, couldn't you get a proper job?" There are still folks who want to join but it's not widely viewed as a mainstream choice. Other than some impressive advertising campaigns, I'm not sure there's much more to be done that will improve recruitment. Shame really as the Navy has some quite decent kit these days.
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I'm not sure there's much more to be done that will improve recruitment. |
The social welfare budget is approx 28 Billion whereas the defence one is about 5 billion...very little emphasis on defence down here. I left a while ago but really enjoyed my time with them, pity about the salary!
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Britain is a martial culture.
The military traditionally occupies an esteemed place in British society and social hierarchy. Slightly culturally different in the US and Australia - but there's still social respect for a military career. In NZ - not so... we are self deprecating about our size and distance and many kiwis are similarly scornful of the armed forces - wondering why we even need them. Personally I was deeply saddened to see the axing of the A4s - but it hastened the public perception of an air force that could not kill (not accurate). Great to see the first P-8 arrive - and I've often wondered if one day some sort of unmanned long-range strike capability will re-emerge that may be suitable for NZs needs - and it's budgets... |
Originally Posted by tartare
(Post 11347984)
Great to see the first P-8 arrive - and I've often wondered if one day some sort of unmanned long-range strike capability will re-emerge that may be suitable for NZs needs - and it's budgets...
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
(Post 11347994)
Do the NZ P-8's have weapons? All the PR I've seen refers to various fisheries patrol, SAR and disaster relief roles but no mention of ASW.
https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/maj...ciated-support |
I had assumed they were capable of dropping weapons - are they not?
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Originally Posted by tartare
(Post 11348002)
I had assumed they were capable of dropping weapons - are they not?
(edit apparently NZ uses penguins and not harpoons) |
Very good.
We're not totally toothless then... |
Originally Posted by Flying Binghi
(Post 11346799)
Yer lets in all them wooly woofters and Arthur-Martha’s into the navy, what’d yer expect would happen..:hmm:
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