What makes you think a couple buckets of sunshine won’t find their way to Oz if the balloon goes up high?

Say what you like (and no doubt you will) but down here we've got a pretty pragmatic view about defence. Rather than run around banging a gong about how we used to rule the seas, we know we've got 5 million population and a limited defence budget. Primary requirements to provide some fishery protection and a lot of disaster relief and support to the local region. No need to try and show off to prove things. We're very good at actually doing what we do. How are your new carriers doing by the way? :rolleyes:

Who said Oz was my real home?
I'm just resident here - banking their dosh and holding one of their passports, alongside the kiwi one.
Asturias56 read the book - saw the film - now read the science.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/exp...or-nuclear-war
It wouldn't be a Shute scenario - but also wouldn't be pretty by any means...

Yer lets in all them wooly woofters and Arthur-Martha’s into the navy, what’d yer expect would happen..:hmm:

So is Australia but we still have a defense capability. We often use it to support Western nations in wars that are closer to them than to us.

Not always very popular in Australia tho'

True and that goes all the way back to WW1 when two votes to introduce conscription were voted down. It doesn't mean Australia just says we are too far to worry about anyone invading us so lets not have an effective defense force. NZ should start to understand that defense capability can take longer to establish than the geo-political situation will give you time to do so.

Yep. Been understood for some time..:)

Back in 1937 a Mr John Curtin, Federal Leader of the Australian Labor Party, said:

”..Australia cannot depend on the so-called Australian Navy..”


The full article offers a the background to that comment…. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/148319333

Which neatly brings us back to the original post in this thread, with both offshore patrol vessels now mothballed - together with one of the only two inshore patrol vessels.

​​​​​​​Not doing so well with even such a narrow task list….

Well said, Lookleft - that support is, and should continue to be, greatly appreciated, as I well know from exchange service with the RAN.

Jack

People's attitude toward the armed forces as a career down here, has had a huge effect on recruitment. I have been asked many times "Why are you in the Air Force, couldn't you get a proper job?" There are still folks who want to join but it's not widely viewed as a mainstream choice. Other than some impressive advertising campaigns, I'm not sure there's much more to be done that will improve recruitment. Shame really as the Navy has some quite decent kit these days.

​​​​​​​Get Peter Jackson to make a recruitment video.

The social welfare budget is approx 28 Billion whereas the defence one is about 5 billion...very little emphasis on defence down here. I left a while ago but really enjoyed my time with them, pity about the salary!

Britain is a martial culture.
The military traditionally occupies an esteemed place in British society and social hierarchy.
Slightly culturally different in the US and Australia - but there's still social respect for a military career.
In NZ - not so... we are self deprecating about our size and distance and many kiwis are similarly scornful of the armed forces - wondering why we even need them.
Personally I was deeply saddened to see the axing of the A4s - but it hastened the public perception of an air force that could not kill (not accurate).
Great to see the first P-8 arrive - and I've often wondered if one day some sort of unmanned long-range strike capability will re-emerge that may be suitable for NZs needs - and it's budgets...

Do the NZ P-8's have weapons? All the PR I've seen refers to various fisheries patrol, SAR and disaster relief roles but no mention of ASW.

The FMS is here
https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/maj...ciated-support

I had assumed they were capable of dropping weapons - are they not?

Of course they can, they have 5 hardpoints in the internal bomb bay and 6 wing hardpoints. The orions they have and are retiring before the end of the year have MK46's torpedos, maveric's and harpoons for the P-3 so assume the a P-8 will be getting them

(edit apparently NZ uses penguins and not harpoons)

Very good.
We're not totally toothless then...

Clearly since your departure from the senior service the morale has improved immensely