Who was going to tell him otherwise?

I think I was advised get myself a No 2 as I was going into the Regiment and it would be more practical than a No 1 in daily use, I remember a "chopped "pilot turning up to join the Regiment course, and he had acquired one of those V Force BD jackets. He wore it on the first day, but he was sent back to the mess at lunchtime and told to come back correctly dressed after lunch!

Re gaiters/puttees, our course Flight Sergeant instructor was clear on the matter. "They are anklets gentlemen. Bleedin' bishops wear bleedin' gaiters!" We did wear puttees when in combat gear, and most of us bought a pair of Fox's officers' puttees, which were of a smooth fawn material rather than the rough, brown material which the airmen wore.

As I asked before, do officers still buy their own uniforms, or is it all on issue now? I think Moss Bros are still trading,but are Alkit, Gieves, R.E.City etc still around?

Absolutely!

On day one in the RAF, we were told that two words were never said:

1. Plane - unless referring to a carpentry tool.

and

2. RAFF - unless combined with RIFF- which of course it never was when referring to the Junior Service (in those days......)

Incorrect, Putees were wound around the calf and rapidly used to undo themselves and trail behind you.. :p

OMS, even worse when the 'zoomies' rip the knee boards off the rotary coveralls..cher ching!

The Abu Dhabi police wear something very similar to the proposed new uniform, wonder if the same company make it?

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....30ac5251f2.jpg

Some FJ idiots did that to a UAS girl at some pre-airshow event. So they were ordered to source a replacement flying coverall with pockets, name badge etc. plus sort all the SCAF paperwork before they would be allowed to depart after the show.

Tankertrashnav: all kit is provided through stores on initial issue, including No 1s & 5s, although some of it is of rather dubious quality, especially the SD hat which is a cheap fancy dress item. Replacing any kit is still at your own expense though.

I purchased my first No 1 from Snaiths with my uniform allowance but after a few years on the UAS it was a little tired having been worn as interim mess kit for mess rugby etc. I was forced to purchase an issue set from stores at Cranwell in order to be allowed to graduate from IOT as mine were deemed not fit to be on the parade square with HMQ who was our graduation reviewing officer. They were of good quality though and I still have cause to wear them from time to time over three decades later (they still fit after a small amount of tailored intervention to allow for middle aged expansion…) I can’t vouch for the quality of the issued ones today, although I was entitled to a new set when I joined the VR after retiring from the regular RAF I couldn’t really see the point of adding to my kit mountain. With hindsight it might have added useful extra insulation to the loft given the cost of fuel this winter.

Do ‘issued’ No. 1 HD also come with the option of red or light blue lining?

SB

not just at shows. It was quite a ‘thing’ at an airbase somewhere in N.Wales in the 90s. When TinCano studes were detached in there they suffered from the same puerile game….

Did on-one get a cautionary punch in the gob then?

CG

The recently 'gorn' Lex Brown used to sport a No1 jacket cut down to a battledress, complete with scarlet lining. Rather set off his AFC ribbon. What larks, Pip!

CG

Ah! Scarlet silk linings! A very young-seeming, well spoken, obviously on the upward slope squadron leader sported such to his beautifully-tailored greatcoat at Topcliffe c. 1965.

Best I ever did in such suavity was in a blazer .... lining cost more than the blazer. Which no longer fits, having shrunk from disuse.

Weather-guesser's uniform was usually an old tweed jacket with elbow patches, shirt with frayed collar, woollen tie, a gaudy waistcoat and baggy trousers - plus old brown brogues....

Correct on most counts for this guesser except footwear: always bulled, whether brown [not in town], or black. Just OCD, a Sunday pre-lunch time filler.
Bondhu boots/ brothel creepers if a rapid retreat seemed advisable.

You forgot the Fairisle pullover, with a hole and ink-stain or two ....... waistcoats were for the bosses.

No plans to follow Virgin Atlantic's latest wheeze, one trusts!:=

Jack

Nothing, but nothing, would surprise me in the relentless pursuit of RAF wokedom.
2/3 of 4/5 of zero.

That reminds me of my Welsh Guards chum (referred to in an earlier post ) who, finding himself at a loose end one Friday afternoon, decided to get himself off to Paddington to catch the train down to the West Country for the weekend. Respectably dressed in tweed suit and brown brogues, he had the misfortune to bump into the adjutant while crossing the concourse on his way to his train. He was promptly sent back to barracks, where he spent the weekend as duty officer for the crime of being incorrectly dressed in town on a weekday.

https://wavellroom.com/2022/07/05/ra...ampaign=buffer

RAF Working Dress – Improving Identity, Quality and Fit

In February 2022, a 15-page proposal of new ‘ASTRA’ uniforms for the Royal Air Force was leaked onto social media. It quickly became national news and generated hundreds of memes universally ridiculing and mocking the propsals as well as the Service. Uniforms are a hot topic that all service personnel (and the general public!) have an opinion on.

A recent service-wide survey on uniforms had record participation, with over 13,000 personnel providing their views on what they do and don’t like. It is well known that there are long-standing issues over identity, sizing and quality of the current No.2 Working Dress. It is seen as bland, boring and often compared to a bus driver’s or uniform. Similarly, the MTP working dress often means RAF personnel are mistaken for soldiers in the Army.

We should avoid drastic-wholesale changes to our uniform. What is trendy and fashionable today, will not be in 15 year’s time. Through several quick, small, and cheap alterations, we can produce a uniform that provides a high-degree of service identity, builds esprit de corps, and is durable for the requirements of the service.

This article will explore the issues over identity, quality and sizing, before proposing a set of relatively quick changes to overcome them.…

In an Internal Briefing Note (IBN) just before Christmas it was announced that the No 2 Service Dress would stay for office wear but with significant improvements made to the quality and functionality (like pockets in the skirts for women!). Plus also a RAF Utility Uniform (RAFUU) would be introduced for light non-op duties. For the RAFUU then next year (2023) would be subject to series of Focus Groups with the RAFUU not expected until at least 2025.

As ever, a compromise solution brings in a little common sense :ok:

What is the obsession with fvcking stable belts? Wearing one in blues is an absolute bell weather of a bell end. In fact in MTP as well.

The linked site says 'identity'. Works for me. But I fear the lazy media will often mistake RAF for army and occasionally army/RN for RAF. C'est la vie.

Batco

They hold a paunch in somewhat (I'm told)

I'd rather eat my own **** than wear one. They are for cock knockers.

Stable belts
 

In 23 years I never owned one. But then (discounting IOT) I probably only spent about ten weeks not wearing a flying suit so had little need for one.

BV

Standing by…

Interesting how the Israeli Defense Forces, probably the most operationally effective fighting force on the planet, has a pretty simple uniform system that only gets changed to improve lethality and survivability....

Given always decreasing budgets , why can’t we take a good look at everyone else’s uniforms , find which works best & simply order that kit in our colours?
Would that be too simple or is there a need for it to be uniquely ours?

The various Services of the IDF have quite a few actually…

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1ade9ab87.jpeg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....18fc629aa7.png

One simple question; suppose Amazon were trying to sell them, do you suppose they might be displayed a bit better? Leaving aside the merits, could the display have been any more unappealing and amateur? Just as well the big stuff is all so well under control…..

Variants of stable belts have been around for years. Prior to the claret, light blue and dark blue ones introduced by the Rock Apes in the 1970s, then the RAF wore their very own blue-grey belt, from the 1937 pattern webbing, over War Service Dress as modelled here by Cpl Marsh in Get Some In:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1145ac18d.jpeg
However, at the same time a RAF ceremonial belt in white was issued with a very recognisable buckle in 1937 too:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....36c43451f.jpeg
The more familiar stable belt with the claret (supposed to be the Army), the thin light blue line (supposed to be the RAF) and the dark blue (supposed to be the RN) was introduced by the RAF Regiment in 1970. The colours, the same used on TRFs and previously in the 1920s on RAF head dress, are now enshrined in the RAF. However, the first stable belts had the side fastening - as per all stable belts designed for horse riding and no bulky buckle to rub on the horse during the mount/dis-mount - it was later that the RAF Regiment developed their own belt buckle. Some of the RAF Regiment Squadrons even had their own colour of stable belt in the early days, but uniformity took over and the familiar Rock Ape belt was rolled out in the mid to late ‘70s. Further the RAF Coppers developed their own belt buckle and originally had a black/red stripe only, but again the claret, light blue and dark blue material was used too. The rest of the RAF were then allowed to wear the side fastened stable belt as the Rock Apes had their own now with their crossed rifle logo.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3ad9b5cef.jpeg
In the early 2000s then a new RAF logo’d belt buckle was released too. This mirrored the RAF Regiment and RAF Police buckles.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....806b0400a.jpeg
So, there is quite a bit of history behind the RAF stable belt. I actually quite like it as an RAF artefact and the colours do make us more recognisable to others that we are RAF. Worn with a barrack shirt and PCS trousers with suitable badges then the RAF identity is maintained. The only people I ever hear gripe about them are the ones that gripe about paying for any item of uniform; the same sort of people who won’t buy a Squadron badge or insist on wearing a beret because they won’t fork out for a smarter field service cap. Fairly strange behaviour from folks who are supposed to have pride in their Service and their appearance.

This is an abstract from Psychological issues in military uniform design:

There are many reasons why getting uniform right is fairly important, the basics are in this abstract. It’s one more thing that RAF seems to have lost its way with. Our everyday uniforms have become bland and lifeless since the 1970s, the woolly pulley, the rain mac (replaced by the equally awful GPJ) and a distinct lack of any ability to display “insignia, decorations and so on”. The only time I normally get my decorations out are that I’m ordered to do a parade (funeral, jubilee, wedding, etc…) or I’m going for an interview with no tea or biscuits!

I can understand the stable belt, as the uniform has probably been designed and approved by those that operate a desk, same as the original Woolley polley designed with a round neck for keeping you warm in the field then bastardised by the shiny tie brigade into an office wear, though it’s days were getting numbered with the we need to stitch our bloody wings on it by the insecure brigade, surprised they never did the same for their shirts and vests, after all, that could have simply been solved by sticking the parrot onto the shoulder rank slides as per the Sgt aircrew.

Could this be to do with our national psyche....we are rather reserved with regard to things like that. The Americans to name but one nation, are much more flamboyant and love a good medal ribbon display (no criticism intended). We seem to shy away from such "ostentatious" behaviour.........again, no criticism.

The 'wings on woolly pully' nonsense started as a tongue-in-cheek joke by a Vulcan squadron Flt Cdr in the late '70s. Unfortunately someone took him seriously and we then had to stitch the cloth moth onto the wretched pullover. Wearing flying kit to and from work wasn't allowed back then, so it wasn't easy to escape having to wear the thing unless you wore the awful 'thunderbird jacket' instead!

That’s a nice white stripe! - to be worn on a camouflaged uniform? Very similar to the very obviously bright Blue Shirt we used to wear (with very shiny shoes) in the 80’s and 90’s - completely countering the use of camouflage….

Of course all this could be ‘solved’ with a decent beret and cap badge….like the current one?

Are you talking about the stable belt? It’s blue, not white. And not likely to be worn in an operational theatre.

Seen it being worn by many a prick in pretty much every operational theatre we've been in over the last 30 years!

downsizer - a stable belt isn’t an instant combat indicator of “prickness”, rather more someone’s attitude is. The stable belt is a personal expense item and so you don’t have to wear one, you can just go with the nasty nylon green belt (not allowed webbing belts anymore) with your PCS or the cheap blue belt with the brass buckle if you like.

mopardave - the ‘reserved’ thing is a bit of guff really. The RN and the Army have displayed all sorts of things on shirts, jumpers and jackets over the years. The RAF as the junior Service made a fairly strong start on uniforms and then it all went wrong around the 1970s and 1980s. Prior to this the RAF had a ceremonial dress, No 1 and RAF War Service Dress (originally created for Aircrew only in 1939/40, but was so popular it was rolled out to the other Branches and Trades in 1943) - sometimes incorrectly termed Battledress, here it is worn by ACM Tedder:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3348a4a57.jpeg
This was the No 2 Dress until 1975/76 when the “Woolley-Pulley” came along. Prior to this WSD went through a non-hairy variant and then the ‘72 pattern Thunderbird Jacket - all with medal ribbons, flying badges and other qualification badges (MRT, Para, Marksman, FMO, AS, etc…etc…). The dreaded wooley-pulley dispensed with everything in one go, with not even flying badges in the early days, and only a few stalwarts continued to wear the Thunderbird Jacket until the early 1990s when it too was replaced by the General Purpose Jacket (GPJ) - the latter, yet again, sans any medal ribbons, badges or other insignia. Here is the 72 pattern ‘Thunderbird Jacket’:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....036bfdbf8.jpeg

So really, the bland ness of the RAF uniform is something from the past 30 years or so. The previous 80 years has seen ribbons and badges on a daily basis. Why was that? It was done on the CHEAP, that is why. For Officers, who pay for uniform, they were trying to save a few quid and for the other ranks then the cost of Crown-tailoring with ribbons and badges was saved. So this was nothing more than doing it on the CHEAP and boy are we paying for it now - compared to RAC staff or bus conductors, you can understand why…

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....51520739e.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e7d02810e.jpeg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....aec1491f6.jpeg
At least with the stable belt there is a little bit of colour that identifies us from afar as being in the Air Forces of the Crown!

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....94b67149b.jpeg

No, I meant a proper operational theatre, one where you take your own accommodation with you.

It soon will be mandatory if the WORAF and his clique of exec WOs (:yuk::rolleyes:) have their way for blues, MTP and RAFUU.

This is an important issue to deal with along with why PTIs can't wear their PTI badge in No5s! I **** you not.

Allow me to confirm your apt definition is not confined to the last 30 years. Mid 70's, 431 MU and this apparition appeared one day, stable belt, chip hat, creases in the uniform, collar and tie plus the infamous SAC Bloggs poster haircut....even the denims were pressed !..said Sgt duly attracted a lot of careful thought from the troops, the MU dress code bearing only a passing similarity to the rest of the RAF at the time. Finally, one evening, and purely an opportunist moment, sadly, his pristine denims, he inside them, and uniform had " an unfortunate encounter " with PRC being applied under pressure. I understand he returned to his spiritual homes Tech Records / Role bay at Brize when tourex.

The obsession with uniforms, and appearances, correlates very strongly with those equally obsessed with parades / drill / marching....a useful distraction from their own failings shall we say.

However, uniforms can prove entertaining.....arrived at an RE base in Germany to borrow a mine detector, quite why was never explained, and obviously we would be proficient in it's use....me, wearing a well frayed aircrew shirt of that era, my mate wearing a Heineken T shirt, one beret between us, and no rank tabs, plus those old green combat trousers, sea boot socks...and wellies...mud encrusted. The ensuing "conversation" in the guardroom was too good an opportunity to miss...so we didn't. Seemingly, the telephones wires to Bruggen, melted...sadly, our Boss at the time, a former CEGB hands on apprentice engineer solemnly assured the Army he would take appropriate action, which he did....with all the gravitas he could muster, he informed everybody at a beer call, we would, in future, take No1 HD / bulled shoes on every crash recovery....before offering his opinion as to the Army