Surely *all* Rock Apes are special?:)

Jack

We went through this with wooly poolies, ribbed, not ribbed, V neck or round neck, brevet or not. Wast of money but great for me as i got a free jumper every time it changed and never had to buy one.
More seriously though, almost every photo of RAF personnel has them in combats whether they are in the UK, overseas, hostile environment or not, i hardly see the point of a blue uniform any more.

You're forgetting other controversies with the round neck one. Tie or no tie, collar points in or out, it varied from SWO to SWO.

[QUOTE=Sigma 09;11275934]Just put union jacks on USAF kit - it always looks cool. I remember being at Red Flag in '78 being totally embarrassed in my issue growbag when all the yanks looked like Tom Cruise. We've always been the scruffs of NATO![/QUOTE

I suspect that a poor comparison with Tom Cruise has/had more to do with our bodies/ hair/ teeth and tans than with our overalls.

Thread drift but: Indeed, I learnt how professional they are when I was co-located with them on HF field deployments.

Oh yes!!!!
(HF late 70's )

What has a certificate, licence or diploma got to do with it? :confused:


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It's almost as if the same word can mean different things in different languages...

Well the wings badge in regs is (for pilot's) referred to specifically as the "Pilot's Flying Badge" or "Badge, Qualification, Pilot" in stores speak. Similar naming conventions apply to all "legacy" aircrew badges (Air Gunner, Loadmaster, etc) though the newer "generic Aircrew" single wing RAF badge is referred to as "Badge, Qualification, Brevet", which is, I suspect, a result of modern repurposing of the word Brevet as the use of language has evolved over time.

The good news is, for this particular measuring contest, it means you're both right....!

Badges of the Royal Air Force (stores guide)

When you see some of the ideas they are coming out with perhaps they should look at the likes of the Ukrainian military, smart, looks warm and military.


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https://violity.com/109332298-fliska-zsu

I shall carry on my own tradition of making it up as I go. 99% grobag n chiphat anyhow. Used to love wearing my tiger scarf as i knew it annoyed the F out of everyone, especially the army!! 1% No1s on remembrance sunday. Some green stuff for ccs or whatever its called now.
I have a loft full of boots, colour= various.

Was once amused by an airman in stores when i enquired about some short sleeve shirts for an impending staff tour. “Should have been given them on initial issue sir”.
I simply didn’t have the energy to explain no such thing existed on my initial issue.

The flying badge signifies that the wearer holds a Brevet. The flying badge is awarded at the same time as the Brevet, so when photographs show wings being pinned on at a "Brevet Presentation", then it is easy to see how the two totally different items became mixed up.

Uniform
 

I joined the RAF in 1958(boy entrant) during training we had a wooly jacket an trews,shirt was detached collar .After training we were issued with battle dress uniform.All the warm winter clothing was issued in september and boots,all used but cleaned.The only thing I would have changed was the shirt to collar attached.Yes we had a smooth knit Vneck pullover and some time a raincoat was issued.
So why the obsession with redesigning everything?
No camo stuff either,whats that all about??

It's over 46 years since I drove home and took off my RAF uniform for the last time, so I am somewhat out of date. Quick question - what, if any items of uniform are officers still obliged to purchase, or is it all now stores issue? I seem to recall that my initial uniform allowance was £125 which at 1964 prices was sufficient to buy No I HD, No 2 HD, No 5 HD (mess kit), SD cap, shoes etc. Wouldn't go far now.

I had a chum who was an ensign in the Welsh Guards at around the same time. The system there was that the newly commissioned officer visited the regimental tailor in the company of the adjutant who supervised the fittings. All he had to do was stand there and shut up and act as a human tailor's dummy. He didn't even have to pay - on delivery, the bill (well into four figures even then) was sent to his father!

TTN … as we were of the same date and place … No. 2 BD was not part of the package, so it was No. 1 HD all the time until you bankrupted yourself replacing it! Fortunately I went to FEAF just in time! I was given one of those V-Force BD jackets, but was told after a week or so to stop wearing it as I was “not entitled .Back to wearing our my No. 1, then … thanks!

BTW, my Initial Allowance went on a car, so I was paying the tailors by instalments for a couple more years! The car was £115!

Good news is the issue of stable belts to all pers is a priority with the new uniform, WORAF thinks so anyway.... or so rumour mill has it.

That'll keep people in for sure.

Spot on - as a brevet is a licence, a diploma or in this case a certificate 👍

I bought one at Swinditz and wore it twice, bloody uncomfortable thing, they will be bringing back putees next

Navy still wear Puttes. As seen last Monday.

Are they not gaiters? Puttees are cloth bandages to be wound round the calf and secured by a tape, surely.

langleybaston - not gaiters, but anklets.

The same as worn by RAF Coppers: https://wyedeanstores.com/products/s...r-force-police

Back in the 1960s, we wore those wretched things in the school CCF and they were known as 'gaiters'. They had to be blancoed with some greenish gunk and the straps polished with brown Kiwi boot polish, the buckles brasso'd. An utter pain!

Colloquially, the flying badge has become known as a brevet; doesn't mean this grammatically correct, but it is what most call it. A bit like a Police Constable is grammatically correctly called a Police Constable; however, it's not what most people call them.

A bit like a synonym; plane for aeroplane or airplane or aircraft. We all know what they mean.
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Jesus worked with plane and lathe, so we are informed.
My father always said "plane" was a big No No [like raff] in his wartime service. Banned, like hands in trouser pockets, and hats in church.

These are the only gaiters, which were worn by officers on ceremonial occasions, such as in guards of honour or when parading the Queen's Colour, and also by gunnery instructors, vide https://www.cetomilitaria.co.uk/ours...nial-1949.html

Jack

But not beards, sadly

Can I ask why?

I joined in 1980 and, although we had Thunderbird jackets, they were less popular than the wooly pully (crew-necked iteration and no flying badges then); trousers were definitely not flared and collars were the same length as they were when I left in 2011. These uniforms (hopefully they're all intended to be worn with trousers) looks like we've re-invented a perfectly functional wheel.

<pedantic>

"airplane" is a subset of "aircraft"

</pedantic>

but yes I know what you mean :p



One thing I never understood though was "police officer". Is a constable an officer? or is he (yes or she) other ranks?



As for beards (I see that was 2019) . I thought they were prohibited because you couldn't wear an oxygen mask with one and it was made a one-rule-for-all type of thing (well that and to distinguish themselves from the Senior Service)

Hands in beards, or beards in church?

I can’t have a beard because it interferes with the fit of my oxygen mask. My question about beards is why are people concerned about them. Is there anecdotal evidence that it degrades operational effectiveness? Rhetorical of course because no, of course it doesn’t. In which case, what is the issue?

Neither does having a tattooed face, or growing sideburns way past the bottom of the ears, but we still can't do that!

Thank God. But give it time, I’m sure it’s on the SLT’s very important to do list.

Put a request in if that’s what you want. Still waiting to see what is wrong with beards.

FWIW, the former CASWO (as it was then) visited my unit and chatted to all of us of my rank. He explained that one of the changes they were looking at was beards. Apparently, in every survey they did of those serving, beards was an issue. We of course said no, and that there were many more important issues to worry about.

Fast forward a few years, beards it is. Of course most of us were change resistant. Now, I couldn’t care. One day we couldn’t have beards, the next we could, and the world kept turning and Ops carried on. Beard or no beard, do your job to the best of your ability, that’s all I care about. I’ll let others sweat the small stuff.

itchy scratchy and harbour old food and young animals

Agreed, even if I could ( oxygen mask dependent) personally I wouldn’t. What others do however, that’s their business. Apparently it’s a win as far as dress policy goes, same as pony tails for ladies. If it keeps people happy and doesn’t impact on operational effectiveness then I don’t care.

In any case, it’s policy. The RAF has moved on.

There are many changes in policy since I joined in 1986 and things are remarkably better. Imagine the RAF in 1986 where we didn’t get rid of women who got pregnant. Imagine the RAF in 1986 where people who were gay weren’t thrown out.

Beards. Whatever.

SB.

it all looks dreadful. (IMHO) but that’s possibly because of the cheap manikins? (anyone else notice our new PM has more than a passing resemblance to an M&S one?)

But, hey, you know that nothing else matters as long as ‘flying suits’ can still be worn in the bar on Fridays and the pockets can be ritually torn off by fast jet mates…..

😉

Against my better judgement, since I assume we are never going to agree, here’s why. I fully concede that they have no impact on operational effectiveness, but beards simply do not belong in the Royal Air Force - they are the preserve of the Royal Navy. They look particularly scruffy IMHO with an RAF uniform. When Sir Wokeston allowed them, I believe that the argument was for ‘greater diversity and inclusivity’ (but of course), when that simply wasn’t true; they have always been allowed on religious grounds. Then there was the argument that potential recruits would be put off joining if they couldn’t keep their precious beard - well, boo hoo. You either want to join up, or you don’t; the military has rules - if you don’t like it, don’t join. The military has never been a follower of fashion, which is all that beards are - a fashion.

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If it was ok for the King…