Yemen is a recent bloody war with not much coverage for comparison.

Because all you have to do is look on ADSB, and other radar trackers freely available on the net and you can see where lots of the military aircraft are. All the strategic recce assets are a prime example. On any day of the week I can see wher the RC135s are, Sweden's Gulfstream and Saab, Several AWACS, loads of tankers and the B52s operating out of Fairford. Can't see any of the fighters or other stuff that the tankers are there for though. I would suggest that NATO want the Russians to know they're there.

Still show up on Global ADSB.

With regards to ADSB, we only see what they want us to see. Even the Russkies left theirs on a couple of days ago when they practiced their Doomsday escape procedure.

Agreed, "B-52 engines running" might be a bit too much info, but five minutes later they are there for everyone to see anyway.

I do believe the people at the Home Office would be onto these groups like a shot if it was becoming a problem. Hell, they could probably black out social media for a few hours if they needed too.

Part of the success of social media (pprune included) is the natural and frequently unbridled need to show off, not just what we look like, what we ate and where we have been but also what we know (and by way of bragging - showing that 'I knew this before you' ). None of this is important except in an egocentric way. It may be old fashioned but perhaps self restraint and modesty should be a better better way of comporting ourselves.

Absolutely, it is well known that the aggregation of 'low level' information can provide more useful information than one individual piece of such information.

One occasion when I do believe this story in the Daily Mail.reporting that Russia is using special forces' phones to target their locations in Ukraine. Alleges that such locations are targetted as soon as they 'clock in' to Ukraine's network which has been hacked ...

Well obviously it's not a top secret tactic, but equally obviously the Russians have been sloppy and paid the price. Why remind them?

Really , for a start its the Daily mail , for a second they don't quote any sources. For a third , even if there were any Brit SOF in Ukraine , do you for a moment think their operational procedures include carrying their UK domestic cellphones around - lol!

Well not now we've left the EU, as that would incur Roaming Charges!

1. So no posting of (freely available) “sensitive” information on this Forum…gotcha, we’ll leave that to the rest of the world.
2. The thought that Pprune would be the first and favorite source of open Intel to our enemy is frankly a little laughable.
3. Despite my dislike of social media ( Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook and the likes) it is tremendously helping the Ukrainians at this point.

This is an information war and the Ukrainians are playing it masterfully.

Justin Bronk from RUSI makes some interesting comment during an interview with Ward Carrol (YouTube) about the way that the Ukrainians are dominating the information warfare arena. Worth a watch. Erudite young fella.

Rewind and take a look at the post in the other thread about the voyager. Post #3424 I believe it was.

Voyager flying northwest up past Italy. - seen on FR24 (= open source)
Message accompanying said post - "with FGR4" ( Not showing on FR24 therefore additional useful info to an enemy)
Message accompanying said post - "routing Akrotiri to Romainia" . OK you can see where the tanker left, burt nothing in open source says where it is going. Therefore additional useful info to an enemy).
It is the additional info that should remain unpublished.

As for BEADWINDOW, that phrase makes me laugh all it does is highlight that something sensitive has been said and would make someone listening-in look closer at what had been discussed.

1. Good point. But ask yourself why would you want to repeat what is already available elsewhere, is it just a form of self gratification or worse, gossip?
2. What makes you think that this is first and favourite? It is probably just a part of a pattern building enterprise.
3. Pprune is itself social media.

A USAF tanker was in his frequent orbit south of Ukraine last night when two F-18s were visible close to him. First time I have seen the distinctive triangle blips, can't believe their display was unintentional.

During WW2 a junketing Congressman returned from the Pacific and crowed that US submarines were experiencing low losses because the Japanese were setting their Depth Charges too shallow. Newspapers published this and the Japanese changed their tactics. US submarine losses rose.

Remember the initial landings of US troops in Somalia? They were blinded by the camera lights of the horde of News Crews on the beach?

If D-Day happened today the media would post the time, date and place citing the “Public’s Right to Know” while waving a copy of the First Amendment. Anything for a scoop.

Umberto Eco said it best: “Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community. Then they were quickly silenced, but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots.”

The danger with that attitude is that the information is given veracity and credence by being used to support an argument by those who are assumed to be SMEs.. Likewise, trying to spread 'misinformation' may well impinge, unintentionally, on other approaches being made.

2. The main threat to security is the silly attitude that no threat exists. The press constantly monitor and use Pprune as a source, why not HIS?
3. If the Ukrainians are using social media masterfully, why do you think the Russians are also not using it for intelligence.
If it is an information war, all sources are important - BOTH sides can use OS to gain intelligence they might not otherwise have access to.
Just think before posting.

It works the other way round, too. Weeks prior to the Russian attack we saw a multitude of videos from Russia and Belarus, trains moving equipment from far east as an example. Those videos revealed missiles in open top carts, T72's of the first build, ZIL trucks, they showed the lack of modern equipment. We saw videos of Alligators and hinds moving closer to Ukrainian borders. The social media actually gave a pretty good idea what is being gathered against Ukraine. And those are the goods that has been seen on the field. Additionally we've seen people analyze the goods Russians have been hauling towards Ukraine throughout the war, a certain video showing airborne armor being moved by train to Belarus comes to mind.
All this has been discussed in this forum in lengthy threads. Has this discussion been giving out any new insight to the authorities in Ukraine? Has it been of use to the western intelligence? I very much doubt it, I reckon they knew it before we did.

And to make it absolutely clear, I am very much pro OpSec. But would the discussion on Pprune about info freely available on internet really fit in that bill...

Hell's Bells, I haven't logged in for a year and I'm glad to see that Common Sense continues NOT to be and the same old arguments are being recycled.

As an ex RAF Station Int Officer I can confirm ANY information is of use, as has been said. But of course the greatest enemy to UK generally comes from within and from people with an agenda that is either utterly naive or purposely damaging - Diane Abbott for example and Jewemy.

We’re not propagating anything that isn’t ‘out there’ already.
We’re posting links and quotes from PUBLIC sources for crying out loud. A link to a website article by definition means it’s public.
The idea that Pprune would somehow hold secret information that the enemy doesn’t know yet is laughable.
Yes, it’s all about dopamine release and feeling the need to have your knowledge acknowledge and egotistical reasons.
Someone may ask a question here and within 3 posts without fail someone switches it to why that did and what they learned and what they proclaim to know and pretend to be.

B2N2, you have missed the point spectacularly and are beyond redemption. There is nothing wrong with posting the links. There is no 'secret' info on pprune. What is wrong is the 'professional' analysis of those links, confirming or denying that information, where the info is right or wrong, where the tactics used are right or wrong. Pointing out info in the public domain is one thing. Turning it into intelligence by giving it credence is another. Look at BEAMR's post at post 60, where he aptly illustrates the intelligence the west got from OS, confirmation of the presence of enemy kit and forces. If we do it, don't you think the opposition does it as well? Thoughtless 'discussions' on Pprune are not laughable, they can dangerous.

I had a friend in the forces, I asked if he was worried about being deployed? "Nope, I kill way more sitting at a desk!". " I have a fire mission @grid coordinates xxx,yyy I have a cell phone with imei #...... Need impact at crossroads such at time abcd.ef fire 12 rds HE does for effect. "

Oh do get a grip for gawd sake!

OPSEC? BEADWINDOW? Security breaches?

If you seriously consider for one split second that some Russian intelligence types, poring over their numerous satellite images, long range IR, night vision and recce images, ELINT, HUMINT and numerous other info sources, will cast all that aside with the cry "hold on, ignore all that! Some ex Vulcan jockey on PPRUNE thinks that we might be wrong in some of what we are doing!" then you are SO deluded that it is embarrassing!

As for the rest, all that is posted here is a repost of stuff already posted elsewhere and often by the Ukranians or UK MoD themselves. You are massively overstating your importance or significance if you think that any of this is any kind of security breach.

я українецьya ukrayinetsʹ

[QUOTE=Brian W May;11202384

As an ex RAF Station Int Officer I can confirm ANY information is of use, as has been said. But of course the greatest enemy to UK generally comes from within and from people with an agenda that is either utterly naive or purposely damaging - Diane Abbott for example and Jewemy.[/QUOTE]

Or perhaps even more damaging, Mr Putin's favourite asset - Bowis and his friend Lordsky.

Personally, I am bored with FR 24 and can't wait for the launch of Submarine Sonar 24.

Pr00ne, where do you think that some Russian intelligence types, poring over their numerous satellite images, long range IR, night vision and recce images, ELINT, HUMINT and numerous other info sources get their cues on WHERE to focus those assets?. Generally from press and social media sites.

Pr00ne, you are missing the point completely.

If you are mil or ex mil you should be ashamed of your naivety.

As i have said before. It is NOT what is open source that is the problem. It is the act of COMPILING it into a very useful bit of intel and the ADDITIONAL information that sits with it.

For an Intel Officer to support these concerns speaks volumes of the seriousness of the subject that people are dismissing as "laughable" .

Has anyone read the millions of words being produced each day analysing what is going on from everyone from the Prime Minister to people on here?

It's a different world today from 30-40 years ago. The problem isn't shortage of information - it's information overload. And honestly cynic - do you REALLY believe the Russians are basing their coverage on Social media - maybe they aren't getting any messages from their own guys in the front line I guess.

Think that even understates the problem, there is so much data getting thrown around that filtering out any useful bits is a massive problem, one that is probably not worth the effort needed to achieve results.
Also note that the social media are frequently used to disseminate misleading information, which further complicates the task.

Frankly, looking back on the record of efforts to keep military secrets, the actual performance seems very unimpressive, from the days of the A bomb, where an undiscovered source gave the Soviets full details of the Hanford reactors that produced the plutonium for Nagasaki to the spy satellites or the US Navy anti sub efforts, things always were leaked. That suggests that secrecy is theater in most cases and probably not worth the cost.

Oh don't be ridiculous!

I am ex mil and I am in no way naive!

This is 2022 not 1934.

How on earth does all of this detailed compiling of info on social media aid, or even in any way affect, a Russian soldier in a shell hole in Ukraine?

Even back in my day I was firmly of the opinion that all Opsec and beadwindow was to prevent embarrassment of senior officers and anything that could possibly be deemed negative toward the Royal Family.

Oh dear, hoist by one's own petard, or convicted from your own mouth. This is one of the most ignorant, naïve and unpleasant comments I have heard from a Commissioned Officer, who once swore loyalty to the crown and those officers placed above him. Pr00ne, you do yourself no favours.

So please explain where YOU think the cues come from?

Seriously? You really think that the "clues" come from PPRUNE? Get real!

It is a comment from an EX Commissioned officer who has long been a proud Republican and after over 30 years experience as a Barrister...

Certainly not! Open source - and it's cues, not clues.

You are still living in cloud cuckoo land despite it being clue or cue!

Ex-officer, proud republican and 30 year barrister are all respectable achievements. However, these qualities do not support your opinion of Opsec, which is at the most basic level WRONG!

Cynicalint, please play the topic, not the man.
Pr00ne thinks that the various security shibboleths are useless procedures, does he have a valid point?