Surely asylum is for people escaping persecution in their own country? So if they've travelled through X number of European countries to get to the UK that makes them economic migrants looking for the best deal, and not just safety? If it can be shown they've travelled through a safe country, for example landing on a UK beach from France or Belgium, then it should be an automatic failure. If they truly have needs to be in the UK after escaping persecution then they can apply properly from whatever first safe country they're reached. Or is this too simple?
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Originally Posted by arf23
(Post 11148794)
Surely asylum is for people escaping persecution in their own country? So if they've travelled through X number of European countries to get to the UK that makes them economic migrants looking for the best deal, and not just safety? If it can be shown they've travelled through a safe country, for example landing on a UK beach from France or Belgium, then it should be an automatic failure. If they truly have needs to be in the UK after escaping persecution then they can apply properly from whatever first safe country they're reached. Or is this too simple?
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
(Post 11148798)
Yes. Given the vast majority that make it are allowed to remain when they apply, despite Ms Patel, there is clearly a case to answer. The law is what it is, not what you would like it to be.
For the avoidance of doubt that's not a call for ban 'em all, keep them out, but the suggestion that there is a difference between asylum seekers at risk of persecution in their home nation and economic migrants who are looking for "a better life" (for want of a better phrase). It is a practical and social reality that the country is unwilling to continue to accept illegal immigration (that's what it constitutes) and is is also highly detrimental in the longer term to those nations from where these people originate. No simple answers - and certainly not turning them back at sea with the Navy. You end up becoming a de facto taxi service - as evidenced by the EU mission in the Med. |
Originally Posted by arf23
(Post 11148794)
Surely asylum is for people escaping persecution in their own country? So if they've travelled through X number of European countries to get to the UK that makes them economic migrants looking for the best deal, and not just safety? If it can be shown they've travelled through a safe country, for example landing on a UK beach from France or Belgium, then it should be an automatic failure. If they truly have needs to be in the UK after escaping persecution then they can apply properly from whatever first safe country they're reached. Or is this too simple?
The EU is also introducing new electronic border controls from next year which will make it much harder for non EU citizens to overstay visas - the main source of illegal migration. At least it will help reduce the numbers of migrants arriving that way. Any who do overstay their visa will have the choice of deportation and never being allowed back to EU again, or trying to make it to UK. So I suspect the channel problem is going to get worse next summer as there are many visa overstayers already in Europe, mostly from Africa. Again, UK did not want to be part of that system either. Personally I can’t wait to see the “outrage” of the Brexit press when from next year UK visitors to the EU will have to pay for an ESTA visa and have their fingerprints taken, and queue for hours at border crossings unless they do it online in advance. |
You mind find this interesting
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...efings/sn01403 "In 2020, there were around 6 asylum applications for every 10,000 people living in the UK. Across the EU27 there were 11 asylum applications for every 10,000 people. When compared with EU countries, the UK ranked 14th out of the individual countries in terms of the number of asylum applications per capita." Edit to add: Is it time this thread wandered over to Jet Blast? |
[QUOTE
Personally I can’t wait to see the “outrage” of the Brexit press when from next year UK visitors to the EU will have to pay for an ESTA visa and have their fingerprints taken, and queue for hours at border crossings unless they do it online in advance.[/QUOTE] we already do have to queue for sometime now as we have to use all others in the eu. It is a tad annoying that eu, ch, us and Korea etc can use e gates in Heathrow. Perhaps some reciprocity would not go a miss |
Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
(Post 11148811)
) and is is also highly detrimental in the longer term to those nations from where these people originate..
Most economic migrants are fleeing because they are illiterate, innumerate, have no qualifications, and have no chance of a job in their own country. So they are also mostly completely useless to European societies. Any migrant from these countries (particularly African countries) who is sufficiently educated, honest, literate and numerate to make any sort of contribution in Europe should be automatically returned to their home country where they are in great shortage. I think unemployment in Nigeria is about 40% - but having worked there for many years it is also very difficult to recruit competent and honest locals to fill even mildly technical positions. There is simultaneously mass unemployment and labour shortages in a lot of Africa. |
Didn't the German Army in 1940/44 prevent anyone from entering the country at the coast ??? why can't the french prevent people from using their beaches to invade other countries such as the UK. There are enough people in the military. who do not seem to do much.
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Originally Posted by SPIT
(Post 11148854)
Didn't the German Army in 1940/44 prevent anyone from entering the country at the coast ??? why can't the french prevent people from using their beaches to invade other countries such as the UK. There are enough people in the military. who do not seem to do much.
Well you started the stupidity SPIT and at least I got it back to the military and aviation :ok: Are there actually any serious, humane and workable solutions out there? |
Spit I somehow think mining the beaches and low watermark would go down with Joe public, neither would the miles of barbed wire or concrete bunkers.
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
(Post 11148766)
The UK Coast Guard has 4 fixed wing assets 3xCessna F406 and 1xCessna 404, I have seen at least one of these being used to patrol the Straits of Dover in the past.
https://www.rvl-group.com/specialist-operations/ |
Originally Posted by woptb
(Post 11148479)
If only we were still members of the Dublin convention !
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Originally Posted by Trim Stab
(Post 11148814)
The EU does have a law which basically says that they only make one asylum claim in the first safe EU country they set foot in. They are fingerprinted, then the data is share amongst all other EU member states to stop asylum “shoppers” going from country to country to make claims. But UK didn’t want to be part of that system -
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Originally Posted by clareprop
(Post 11148696)
Concentrating on 'policing' the illegal immigrants seems like a complete waste of time. It seems to me the focus should be on the gangs who arrange the crossings. Treat them like organised drug runners and enemies of the state and set up a joint military force with Belgium, Netherlands, France and Italy - and eradicate them. No gangs, no crossings.
Although there are lots of comments saying that no laws are being broken and so the authorities are unable to take action, I note (from the BBC website) that following the 27 deaths last week, the French interior minister said 'Five people have been arrested in connection with the fatal crossing. Mr Darmanin said regional prosecutors had launched an investigation into aggravated manslaughter.' So, something can be done by the authorities if one or more people die. Surely there are other rules about endangering or something similarly generic that can be enforced if only 'they' decided to? |
Originally Posted by arf23
(Post 11148794)
Surely asylum is for people escaping persecution in their own country? So if they've travelled through X number of European countries to get to the UK that makes them economic migrants looking for the best deal, and not just safety? If it can be shown they've travelled through a safe country, for example landing on a UK beach from France or Belgium, then it should be an automatic failure. If they truly have needs to be in the UK after escaping persecution then they can apply properly from whatever first safe country they're reached. Or is this too simple?
So yes, more than too simple. |
Instead of batting around personal opinions of what the current law says, have a look at
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...ings/cbp-9031/ You could say the boats are another Brexit Benefit |
1. When a Government is obsessed with open borders.
2. Refugee and Asylum seekers human rights act needs to be re written , if the UN don't like the idea, resign from the convention. 3. Remove all foreign aid from countries that refuse to take back known and provable refugees. I.D cards are a non starter. Watch for the New Climate refugees that is being pushed by the UN... The World is in Big trouble. |
Originally Posted by ersa
(Post 11149041)
1. When a Government is obsessed with open borders.
2. Refugee and Asylum seekers human rights act needs to be re written , if the UN don't like the idea, resign from the convention. 3. Remove all foreign aid from countries that refuse to take back known and provable refugees. I.D cards are a non starter. Watch for the New Climate refugees that is being pushed by the UN... The World is in Big trouble. Edit: Forgot to add. How will.any of that stop a single boat? |
Originally Posted by Ninthace
(Post 11149051)
That seems to be fairly silly set of statements. 1 makes no sense. 2. What Refugee and Asylum seekers act? You want the UK to give up its seat in the UN and ion the Security Council? Seriously?. 3 Refugees have the right to stay, It is non-refugees that are the issue. A government, having made people refugees, is hardly likely to take them back. What about refugees from countries not in receipt of aid?
Edit: Forgot to add. How will.any of that stop a single boat? |
Originally Posted by ersa
(Post 11149041)
3. Remove all foreign aid from countries that refuse to take back known and provable refugees.
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