What is going on at the top??
 

You couldn’t make it up - or could you? Everyone in the RAF is to be an “aviator”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-airwomen.html

From Air Clues, Ed36 P30.

I tend to agree with him! An ‘aviator’, by definition, ‘aviates’ - they don’t work in offices/stores/hangars/guard airfields.

Shouldn't it now be, 'aviators and aviatrixes'?:E

CG

By the same token, not all sailors sail.

'Last night, Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston said: 'With more than one in five of our recruits now women, the title 'airmen' does not reflect a modern, diverse Royal Air Force'
We live in a democracy , where we abide by the majority.
Why does he believe it has to change because 20% of recruits are women?
Has the term airman and airwoman put off potential recruits? We need to be told.

Well since you are all no doubt still serving, and this is in some way relevant to you, why don't you all fill in the survey doing the rounds on this matter. I have.

Dear me, what utter woke bolleaux! No doubt amending all the publications, MAFL etc. to reflect this nonsense will be a whole lot of fun too.

Are rank titles such as Senior Aircraftman going to change to something else too?

Plenty of holding officers around to do all the Ctrl F/Replace with on the docs while they wait for a slot on a course :E

Utter madness. I do believe salutes, Sir and Maam are also now in the firing line according to a chat with some friends still serving. Add to that the top brass want to be the first to be carbon neutral and the colours of the rainbow now seem to be the official RAF Colours and I bet the Chinese and Russians are pi$$ing themselves laughing.
Saw 4 airmen (can I still say that?) in the local town last week. 4 different types of boots, no hats, 3 with really awful beards and jackets flapping open. I have seen more professional looking members of the Taliban. Never have I been so glad to be a civvy and well away from this crap.

The horror.

Who cares as long as it's in the RTS/the right colour.

Aviator n. One who flies aircraft.
Sailor n. Seaman or mariner.

I rest my case.

You’d think he had better things to do.

Mog (aviator and sailor)

Mmm, well I think we should care and I’m not ex military, only ever having flown civilian.
Taking a pride in wearing a uniform in the correct manner, is surely the foundation of self discipline that must be a pre-requisite of anyone who may one day have to carry out orders, whilst serving their country?! I despair…I wear my airline uniform with pride (perhaps not as much pride as I once did) and would certainly wear a service uniform correctly and with pride

The poor Diversity induced Wokies are catching up with the spams who changed to this term a few months ago….a complete travesty in my view.

Driven, no doubt, by MOD hiring a diversity and equality ‘advisor’ who at this rate (using corrected terminology) is likely to be “directing the next conflict from a conciliatory view of the “conflict arena” and counting the Aviators rearranged into separated articles during the dispute in order to complain about the percentage of non-defined genders abused by the opposing party”.

I wish them well, but I will walk away laughing.

It's actually a good thing that there is more than one type of footwear on issue. The realisation that different manufacturers cater to different types of feet/environments giving people the choice to wear what is comfortable and appropriate. There are currently three colours of flying boot available on issue/in service AFAIK (black/brown/tan?) so realistically even the colour doesn't matter, but maybe a tan pair of desert flying boots aren't appropriate given the UK temperate climate at this time of year.

How about Warriair?:}

The irony of it all is that Monty Python were correct all along. Because that's the way it's going.
'I suppose you'd rather be at the pictures, than marching up and down the square?'

In my country, all of the Air Force members are called aviators. This is also the title of the lowest rank. I happened to be a second class aviator, driving a fire engine. People flying aboard aircrafts are called "crew members", and among them, those actually driving the planes are called "pilots".

Or perhaps aircrew should now become known as 'real aviators' ......

Those who wish to change the English language such that it has ambiguity between singular and plural (the use of the word 'they') are not good communicators. Those who fail to acknowledge that in order for an animal species (of which homo sapiens is one) to continue to exist there must be biological male and female members of the species which mate are denying the fundamental scientific basis for mammalian life. Yes, there are hermaphrodite animal species but currently they are not eligible for employment in the RAF.

It is absolutely right to respect lifestyle choices and individual preferences (as long as these do not offend and disadvantage others) and language should not be offensive but we must not corrupt our language such that it becomes ambiguous and factually and scientifically incorrect.

So you've all filled in the survey on MODNET then? Because it affects you all?

Lucky if you can get a pair of any colour from stores these days, so people just have to wear what they've got!

Budget all been spent on different types of hats and pilot costumes.

Perhaps we could give them a badge or something to denote their trade as real aviators? Didn't they try that with RPAS operators too but they felt excluded because it was a different colour thread or something?

Donkey's.
 

This simply reminds me of the fable of The Old Man and The Donkey; so busy trying to please everyone that you end up pleasing nobody at all.

Personally I don't see why they couldn't have reversed the early-2000s abolition of the ACW/LACW/SACW ranks (which was considered an 'empowering' move at the time, but by the standards of today looks like it 'erased' women - there's a lesson there about the perils of trying to keep up with social scientific trends), allow individuals the freedom to switch between the gendered ranks as often as they like, and replace the catch-all term 'airmen' with 'airmen and airwomen'. As a bonus, the act of saying 'soldiers, sailors, airmen and airwomen' implicitly advertises the RAF's openness to both sexes. Yes, this wouldn't address non-binary or asexual people, but trying to please everyone - especially those of an activist mindset - is a very difficult thing to do.

Don't really know why people are getting so heated about this. Myself as a serving pilot in the military know I fly planes. Our new 'aviators' who support the mission know they don't fly planes. Someone who's in the flying branch must have a fair few insecurities if they're worried that those in ground roles have been given a title that may somehow make others think they get airborne as part of their job. As a qualified serving pilot you should have nothing to prove to anyone. Which does make me wonder who the majority of people commenting on this thread are.

This.

Did you see all the excitement on social media over the fake notice that came out about "aircrew" eagles going on SAC/Cpl rank tabs too? Lots of frothing at mouths.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....31f76f3cb3.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....738652dd45.jpg

LS8C1
 

All valid points but it is not about what you think, or any serving/Ex member of the RAF.
It is about the global perception of the RAF as an effective fighting force and a credible deterrent. All of that is suffering badly because of this pointless PC crap.

of course.

Your presumption that most on here are serving is touching!

Citation needed.

"back in the day", Airmen made sense. Society has changed - 1 in 5 of the RAF is not male, so airmen seems inaccurate and innapropriate.

As usual the "of course there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" brigade are out in force getting worked up about a change that makes no impact or difference to their lives, but may make a meaningful difference to those who are serving now.

To those who say "but standards and in my day" - firstly, the operative phrase is 'your day' - that was then, this is now. Thank you for your service, but let those who are serving now express a view on what they want - your views are an irrelevance. Secondly, the RAF is always changing and has done since it was formed. The RAF you served in was so different to the one you joined, the one you learned about as a kid, and the one you left as to be a never permanent organisation - don't assume that because things were done a certain way once, that this continues to make sense.

Finally, you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have - you may want to get all angry and hit the keyboard moaning about snowflakes and diversity and how it was better when you were in - but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now. I personally think they deserve more respect than being insulted by yesterdays men who are unhappy with the idea of a very simple change.

Spot on! No doubt some still wish for a little “field punishment No.1”,my advice would be put it on your Christmas list,if you’ve been naughty,someone will oblige!

The feminine form of the noun "Aviator" is "Aviatrix".
That should settle this woke nonsense. Mind you, some of them think that grammar is some sort of fascist construct.

The USAF is sticking with the generic term "Airmen" for all ranks, Air Force Speciality Codes (AFSCs) and genders.

The US Space Force recently adopted the term "Guardians".

trim it out

Planes? Whatever next?

Re IBN 101/21 in post 28, isn’t ‘ Reaper/Protector Mission Intelligence Coordinators and Cabin Crew’ a tautology?

Batco

I seem to remember that we deleted SAC(W) etc sometime ago for what was given as almost the same reason as this change. Are saying that the decision was wrong?

Things have certainly changed....

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8d5ed9373b.jpg