Out of interest, does anyone actually refer to US Space Force personnel as 'Guardians'?

Surely your list should read Leading Aviator, Senior Aviator and Senior Aviator(Technician). Chief Technician and Warrant Officer require no amendment as they do not contain the word “men”.

As for Master Aviator surely Master Aircrew is more appropriate?

Only 3 ranks need amending, or perhaps only 2 if the current SAC(T) was changed to something more appropriate, something like Junior Technician perhaps, with a four bladed propeller as a rank badge.

LJ

Perhaps you misunderstand my position on this matter, and that is, I don’t have one.

I served for 15 years and have been out for 22.

If the powers that be change the names of a few ranks it’s no skin off my nose.

Whether or not the change is required, or desired, is up to currently serving personnel to decide upon.

My opinion, along with all those who have previously served, is irrelevant.

I am no longer serving, so I guess my input is diminished somewhat, but I am not really surprised by anything the RAF leadership does these days. I wish all members of the RAF the best of luck, regardless of gender, orientation, colour or religion - even the white, straight minority.

However, as a taxpayer, I expect the leadership focus of the RAF to be warfighting and defence of the UK. Currently, I am not convinced this is the case.

Typical patronising response... How on earth will this 'make a meaningful difference to those who are serving now'? This is just political posturing and rearranging the deckchairs on a sinking ship with poor cabins and conditions.

The people serving now have a 'champion' in the form of Veterans. We have a voice and can hold the government to account by using said voice through associations etc.

People like you would do well to consider our expertise before displaying such an arrogant attitude.

Old-Duffer, the rank you are trying to remember is “Ardian”, but those were officer ranks.

The 1918-1919 non-commissioned ranks were: Warrant Officer Class I, Warrant Officer Class II, Flight Sergeant, Sergeant, Corporal and Air Mechanic, Private, Clerk and Boy as shown below.

The ranks below Corporal were amalgamated to SAC and LAC in 1919.

Mechanic, Clerk and Private are, of course, gender neutral - albeit having nothing to do with most modern roles.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....322f8a7ce.jpeg


WRAF ranks of the same period can be found in the link below.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/...omment=2770614

Gen interested, what sort of topics are Associations currently holding the Govt to account on?

I would disagree, The Station is the equivalent to the ship. The aircraft are the main weapon system, Try getting airborne, let alone carrying out a mission, without the help of sqn and stn staff. Having done time in both, 30 years in total, a posting to a Station has far more in common, ethos wise, to a posting to a Ship.

And you accuse others of arrogance?

"The people serving now have a 'champion' in the form of Veterans. We have a voice and can hold the government to account by using said voice through associations etc."

Having seen the attitudes on display here by 'veterans' I am genuinely embarrassed and ashamed to think that you feel your views reflect the modern military. Please don't presume to speak on behalf of it because your values, standards and conduct are woefully out of line with those serving.

Stop presuming that the system is the same now as it was when you were in - it isn't.

Frankly there is nothing more cringeworthy than encountering retired veterans who assume that they a) know what is genuinely going on in the military today and b) that the modern military want them to 'fight their corner' because frankly they don't.

My son served in the RAF for over 5 years and my daughter is married to a serving officer. There is much truth in what you say,

ORAC - you have just displayed Unconscious Bias and, no doubt, offended lots of people by showing in full that which relates to the males yet only offering a link to show what it is for females. That is sooo degrading and offensive.

I really can't believe that as a serving member of the RAF I have been so conditioned to spot and 'speak out' about such a terrible, shocking, hurtful and offensive thing! I must go to my 'Safe Space' and report you to the D&I people.

A couple of years ago a senior aviator on a front line sqn was given a dressing down for reminding people on the station that if they didn't fly then it was their job to get the aviators airborne.

It would appear that those more senior than the senior aviator on that station did not share his view!

Jimlad1

Not so. What I observe as someone serving is the stratification across the generations that are serving. It seems to be a divide between “Millenials” or “Gen Y”, that are roughly 29-42 years old, and the rest. That is very sweeping, but when you meet a lot of Service folks you start to gain that impression. This means that the “Boomers” (56-60), “Gen X” (42-56) and the new “Gen Z” (18-28) tend to get along - in fact it would appear that the younger Gen Z absolutely despise Gen Y (or Millenials). Now of course there are exceptions to this.

The trouble is “the top”, to which this thread refers, is in so much trouble as they are out of touch. They believe that the Next Gen Air Force is what the very noisy Gen Y/Millennials are screaming for - with some proper virtue signalling - when actually they are in a minority and likely to be retiring when Next Gen Air Force 2035-2040 comes around. So ‘the top’ would appear to be missing this disquiet from the newer generations of the RAF who are getting more and more annoyed - of course, they communicate in their own way and you only have to see some of Gen Z’s memes to see how proper p!ssed off they are. Some of us younger Gen Xs are ‘read into these memes’ and it shows what a huge gulf there is between what the majority of the RAF wants and what ‘the top’ believes they should be doing. The final thing to say is that Gen Z do things, they are activists and will be great leaders - I can see them leapfrogging the Twitterati Gen Y within the Armed Forces. With some similar values to Gen X, then I like that, and the fact that many are fed up with Gen Y’s social media ‘cancel culture’. They want to go toe-to-toe and confront some of this and that is why you see our kids attending more live demonstration than ever before.

Fascinating stuff and ‘the top’ really needs to stop following the Twitterati Warrant Officers and listen to the brighter talent with greater potential beneath them…

Jimlad1 - I am still serving and I agree with the majority of posts here.

Once the system has resolved the problems of infrastructure and the basics of hot water and heating referred to above; when we have sufficient personnel to fix and service aircraft so that aviators can maintain flying currency to try and increase their competence; when we have simulators which actually represent the aircraft being flown ... then we can perhaps look at changing NOTAM to NOTA and wingman to Air System Colleague variously tinker with the Queen's English to pacify activist-minded products of the current educational system.

I am asked if I am proud to be in the RAF. I have changed my answer in recent years, very sadly, to "No"!

I always thought the gender neutral term was 'Crab'.

So you have continued serving for some years in an organisation you are not proud of?

Genuine question: why have you not left?

Nil_Drift
Spot on!!! :ok:

Nothing is forever, so they are probably hoping for a better regime at the top in the future??? :confused:

Actually, it's far more fundamental than that. I'm now mercenary and counting the days to the pension ...