RAF Seeks Zero Emissions Trainer
 

RAF doing market exploration for military certified zero emissions light training aircraft ? Alert 5

RAF doing market exploration for military certified zero emissions light training aircraft

The U.K.’s Defence and Security Accelerator (DASA) has launched a Market Exploration called Zero Emissions Air System, on behalf of the Royal Air Force (RAF).

The RAF is searching for its next generation of light flying training aircraft that must be more environmentally friendly and produces a zero carbon emission at the point of use.

The light aircraft must have an endurance of around 90 minutes with a turnaround time of not more than 20 minutes. This will include replenishment of the powertrain energy source, which can be electric or hydrogen based.

For more information, hit the Source below

Source

https://www.flightstore.co.uk/images..._thumbmini.jpg

It'll be a lot cheaper...

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c9ce9dfe00.jpg
...might need a bigger band!

Erm.....
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5eaf08e450.jpg

All that rubber winding and unwinding creates heat - not good for the climate!!!

Ahh, but not emissions free!

https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/a...ectro-easa-tc/

India uses the Rotax version for training.

The current EFT trainer, the Grob Tutor, isn’t producing much in the way of emissions at the moment...

Sorted, do you want it shipping?

Link Flight Trainer - govdeals.com


Or send your chaps around and we can do it on location

Link Trainer Flight Simulator - Naval Air Station Fort Lauderdale Museum (nasflmuseum.com)

If you saw the smoke coming out our winch, it would be a non starter. Even a gas winch isn't green.
I suppose we could bungy it off a ridge - that would be green but the pilot's trousers might be brown if the ridge isn't working.

The requirement says "zero carbon emission at the point of use". Unless you have a launch failure you should never be less than 1000' from the winch. Failing that, auto-tow with a Tesla?

Conservation of energy; you don't create heat, just shuffle it around.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....518ca4551c.jpg

Zero huh, very good..

Yep. Photograph from a Japanese raid on a suet factory: "Atora, Atora, Atora".

That nasty glider is fibreglass so it isn’t really green, what you need is wood and fabric, here are some I took earlier.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1f459ef8_c.jpg1938 Schneider SG38 by Tony Taylor, on Flickr


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6c831fb2_c.jpg1938 Schneider SG38 2 by Tony Taylor, on Flickr

Sorry if they are not as sharp as normal he was about 600ft to 1000ft above me and I was trying to heave a 500mm around above my head.

The requirement isI'm afraid the bungy method produces carbon at the point of use, those hanging on and stretching the bungy. Detail, detail, sorry to be a spoil sport. :p Must be a way though, if a UK power station can go from burning coal to shipping in timber from the US and burning that and be considered carbon neutral........

Every poster so far: change is bad ☹️

No, just a pragmatic , and amusing,response from experienced people.
The idea that reducing emissions will be cheap and easy is delusional.
Lithium batteries have about a sixtieth of the energy density of JetA1.
Its called physics.
It trumps wishful thinking every time.

IOW. “ I know better. Change is bad.”

Not aimed at anyone in particular, more a musing, but the argument that it isn’t cheap or easy and therefore shouldn’t be considered is mystifying to me.

Without aiming to beat expensive and difficult challenges little if anything would have been achieved by the human race.

No agricultural revolution, no industrial revolution, no technological revolution.

it confuses me even more when it is wielded by allegedly ‘experienced’ individuals. The self same individuals who have spent a lifetime utilising the success stories from others struggles to overcome difficult and expensive problems.

Naturally there are legion failures to accompany every success but without trying we will never succeed at anything.

You might want to look up the concept of economic utility.
All successful revolutions increase economic utility , not decrease it.
The obsession with reducing emissions at all costs is going to lead to really dumb and expensive mistakes.

Thank you for so eloquently proving my point.

I give up.

It depends on where you consider the boundaries of the system, wallet, house, town, etc.. up to global. The utility lies in saving the climate, the cost may be high but economically justified if it preserves mankind. Yes there well may be dumb mistakes along the way, but that shouldn't stop the effort.

Never said we shouldn’t make an effort.
It just should be rational.
Where I live people are installing solar panels that will have a capacity factor of 15% if they are lucky.
Because of a feed in tariff , which the Government is being forced to reduce by economic reality , and Government subsidy.
Because its popular.
But also dumb and expensive.
That might work for a while in wealthy first world countries but its not the future.

https://www.flyer.co.uk/aura-aero-to...ic-two-seater/


Solved. Expect OBE by return mail.

Endurance issues easily solved; just hook a bunch up to tow behind a Voyager and recharge by windmilling prop.

This line in the Market Report struck me as curious - There is no intention to launch a formal DASA competition as a result of this Market Exploration.

So, is the RAF going to field a zero emissions trainer or not?

Should the Geneva Convention be adjusted to limit environmental emissions in war?

“Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.” Lord Kelvin 1895. Good thing nobody listened to him either.

The problem with economic utility is that too often externalities are ignored. What is the cost of climate change, air pollution etc if we continue as is?

The frontline will be carbon fuelled through 2050 through we may see synthetic fuels replace fossil sources. And that's okay because military necessity justifies the cost.

But UAS and AEF flying won't have the same licence to operate. They'll have new generations of students and cadets looking for zero emissions and if the RAF is not ready to rise to that challenge then we will all be poorer for it (remembering that the primary purpose of UAS and air cadets is encourage air-mindedness , not recruitment).

I have a virtually zero carbon solution. A good old fashioned wood and canvas glider. We could use the growing of the materials to offset any carbon. To launch we go back to the ridge idea but this time a cliff, Build a launch ramp out of wood - more carbon offset. To launch we tie a length of hemp rope, more carbon offset, to a scrap Tesla battery for poetic justice. Pass the rope over a pulley and attach the other end to the Ottfur on the glider. Balance the battery on the lip of the ramp then give it a gentle nudge so it falls off, launching the glider into the air. I reckon that is as near zero carbon at the point of use as you can get. I call it the Colditz system.

To retrieve the launch cable, a light line previously attached to the cable near the pulley on the glider side, could be lowered down the cliff. Tie an empty canvas bucket to the other end. As the battery plummets the bucket rises. To get the battery back, fill the bucket with water, we may need a sizeable bucket but it is canvass so not too difficult to make. Bucket falls, battery rises. When bucket hits the bottom, the water spills out and we are good to go again. As green as they come I reckon! Sometimes I even surprise myself. :ok:

Now where's my Herbert Lott?

Dear Sir I write this note to inform you of my plight
And at the time of writing I am not a pretty sight
My body is all black and blue, my face a deathly gray
I write this note to tell why Paddy's not at work today

While working on the fourteenth floor, some bricks I had to clear
And to throw them down from off the top seemed quite a good idea
But the gaffer wasn't very pleased, he was an awful sod
He said I had to cart them down the ladder in me hod.

Well clearing all those bricks by hand, it seemed so very slow
So I hoisted up a barrel and secured the rope below
But in my haste to do the job, I was too blind to see
That a barrel full of building bricks is heavier than me.

So when I had untied the rope, the barrel fell like lead
And clinging tightly to the rope I started up instead
I took off like a rocket and to my dismay I found
That half way up I met the bloody barrel coming down.

Well the barrel broke my shoulder as on to the ground it sped
And when I reached the top I banged the pulley with me head
I held on tight, though numb with shock from this almighty blow
And the barrel spilled out half its load fourteen floors below

Now when those building bricks fell from the barrel to the floor
I then outweighed the barrel so I started down once more
I held on tightly to the rope as I flew to the ground
And I landed on those building bricks that were scattered all
around.

Now as I lay there on the deck I thought I'd passed the worst
But when the barrel reached the top, that's when the bottom burst
A shower of bricks came down on me, I knew I had no hope
In all of this confusion, I let go the bloody rope.

The barrel being heavier, it started down once more
And landed right on top of me as I lay on the floor
It broke three ribs and my left arm, and I can only say
That I hope you'll understand why Paddy's not at work today.

AEF flying is already basically non existent so no real change there. Just leave the air cadets with gliders.
The UAS' will shift, why do they need to fly as much as they do? These days they are more direct recruitment than air mindedness, the Studes are all set on an RAF career and know they'll be in sims, so don't expect actual flying.

But what about the fuel you would burn excavating cliffs all over the UK.?

There's enough already. We are on an island surrounded by the wretched things facing into all possible winds, How many basic flying training units do you need anyway? Away with your pettifogging nit-picking. Give me my Herbert Lott now - cheapskates!

Pasta, you beat me to it .:)

TukwillaFlyboy,

Gerard Hoffnung - The Bricklayer’s Lament.


Full album including the above and much more.

A classic !

Why not make all that warlike stuff zero emission.
Helicopters Fast jets, transport, F-35's (whatever they are).
The Battle of Britain flight.
Then the rest of MOD, High ranks, Ships (they could tow gliders),
motor transport, and what about the Nuclear weapons ?

Not sure about ZERO emissions :} but got to be close. Nothing like a bungy launch :)

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....db27e1222f.jpg