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Here here Medod...here here.
An insane amount has been achieved in 2 weeks. |
Originally Posted by Spunky Monkey
(Post 11103409)
Here here Medod...here here.
An insane amount has been achieved in 2 weeks. weeks to go, and then only when they city was overrun! They should have had the list of those permitted to travel, and issued secure identity cards to those back by the end of May at the latest. Should have had all the non essential personnel out by the end of June, and in the last couple of weeks it would just be the clean up crew who needed to depart. All of the above has nothing to do with the military. They had nothing to do with the timeline of events. They already had their personnel out. They had to bring more back to protect those other government and NGO types that hadn’t yet left. It was a purely political issue for the timing. |
I guess the ultimate question was whether 10-20 thousand Afghan deaths a year in a country of 38 million was a price worth paying for a free society for some 60-70% of the population; one where women could learn, work and live their own lives, heck one where you could listen to music, because you can't now! Try looking at the situation through their eyes. Turnout at the 2019 election was less than 10 percent. Some in the security forces weren't being paid or fed, while regional power brokers like Dostum grew rich on misbegotten US cash. The Taliban operated a parallel justice system which Afghan judges advised locals to use for resolution of minor everyday disputes, because the official system was too slow and corrupt. And while residents of Kabul enjoyed an improving quality of life, the country folk who make up most of Afghanistan's population (and so bore the brunt of ANDSF losses) continued to suffer the effects of festering conflict. Another word for propping up a foreign government which has lost the support of its people is "imperialism". We mustn't lose sight of perspectives like this (follow the link for complete thread): |
Originally Posted by highflyer40
(Post 11103415)
Thats the whole point though isn’t it. The August 31 deadline has been there for since at least the start of this year. Yet they only start with 2
weeks to go, and then only when they city was overrun! They should have had the list of those permitted to travel, and issued secure identity cards to those back by the end of May at the latest. Should have had all the non essential personnel out by the end of June, and in the last couple of weeks it would just be the clean up crew who needed to depart. CG |
I see there are plans being pushed around to form an Afghan Regiment in the British Army using Afghan Special Forces we helped train, makes sense if the budgets there, they would I assume be similar to the Gurkhas. It would create jobs and help fill the recruiting shortages.
https://www.forces.net/news/afghan-s...-army-regiment |
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images...wq05Fs_x96.jpg Azmat Khan @AzmatZahra 1. They may not be on your TV screens right now, but there’s a generation of Afghan youth in rural areas whose lives over the last 20 years were forever changed by the war playing out directly in front of them—when the American public was not watching as they are now. 4:42 PM · Aug 23, 2021 |
Originally Posted by medod
(Post 11103390)
I don't really understand anyone in the media calling the evacuation a "disaster". It was a highly successful operation spun up in just a couple of days and sustained for a fortnight, and largely met its objectives (in fact I bet it exceeded what the planners thought was possible). Everyone involved should feel very proud. If they mean needing to perform the evacuation is a disaster, fair enough, but I wish they'd choose their words more carefully. I can see why the press are calling it in parts a disaster, this should have started happening months ago, the Civilians should have been evacuated before the troops left, not the other way round where you have to bring the troops back in. If they had then Kabul would not have yet fallen and an orderly evacuation could have taken place, however, some of those you needed to evacuate would still be in positions required to be working, military, embassy staff etc. . It should have been planned to leave during the quiet season in the first place, and that goes way back to the negotiations. Plans should have been put in place to destroy records at short notice etc too. Think about the numbers compared to the last mass evacuation. Kabul 100500 people approximately evacuated. Dunkirk 338000 approximately evacuated However those from Dunkirk needed moving about 40 miles, Kabul to Ramstien is a 2800 mile trip. a superb effort by all involved. .. |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 11103279)
The Times:
Getting all the troops home takes some fancy footwork US military commanders at Kabul airport are engaged in an elaborate choreography to complete America’s final troop withdrawal from Afghanistan by midnight tomorrow (Michael Evans writes). The priority had been to keep hundreds of marines, soldiers and special operations troops in place for as long as possible to ensure safe evacuation of the last Americans and Afghans with immigration visas. At the same time they have had to put enough troops on the planes starting at least 48 hours before the deadline is reached to guarantee that all the 4,000 service personnel who were there at the end of last week are removed on time. US defence officials have acknowledged that it may be impossible to remove all the helicopters and other equipment on the remaining flights because of the space they will take up. The US military has already destroyed a large amount of assault rifles and ammunition supplied to the Afghan national security forces. The CIA has demolished a building outside the airport used for training Afghan intelligence agencies in counterterrorism. It contained sensitive equipment. However, there is no evidence that the US has yet had to destroy or disable any helicopters, all of which have been vital to the evacuation. At least a dozen Chinook, Black Hawk, Apache and special operations-adapted Little Bird helicopters are on the list for withdrawal but some may have to be left behind. US defence officials have indicated they may be destroyed in an airstrike before the midnight deadline. However, those used by the US Army’s 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, known as the Night Stalkers, can be flown out of Kabul individually because they have air-refuelling capability. For the troop airlift choreography, the commanders have had to draw up flight manifests based on the requirement to continue checking visas of Afghans and securing the airport. The 5,800 troop total was cut to 4,000, helped by a decision to close some of the airport entry gates and all the roads around the perimeter. This enabled marines of the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit (24th MEU) and soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division, both responsible for perimeter security and checkpoints, to start withdrawing. The 2,000 Marines from the 24th MEU had originally been airlifted from ships in an amphibious-ready group in the Gulf to Kuwait before being flown to Kabul. They will return to their ships via Kuwait although, sadly, without 11 of their comrades, who were killed in the suicide bombing at Kabul airport. Among the last to leave Kabul will be several hundred US special operations troops who are expected to be on the final flights out in the hours before midnight tomorrow. They will be accompanied by the last remaining CIA paramilitary officers. Green beret soldiers of the US Army’s 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne) and CIA members of the intelligence agency’s special activities division were the first to arrive, covertly, in Afghanistan in 2001 after the 9/11 al-Qaeda terrorist attacks. The first in, they will now be the last out when the final chapter of America’s campaign in Afghanistan comes to an end tomorrow. |
Reference the airlifted SUV….
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11103467)
And the longer we had stayed the more this would have become the norm as those set in their ways would die off to be replaced by new generations with the same values these under twenty year olds had been brought up with, where for one women were not treated as dirt etc.
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I was referring to the main cities, sorry I should have put that in.
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Nightstalker receives Norwegian medal,
In better news, a Nightstalker MH-47G pilot has received Norwegian medal, a first for a non Norwegian since WW2. It was for 2019 mission to rescue Norwegian special forces in Afghanistan
https://theaviationist.com/2021/08/2...5O1-JjT_U79TIc https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6ab9908394.jpg Cheers |
The sleeve on that uniform tells the tale for those in the "know" of what those wee small stripes indicate.
That he is a CW5 with long service with TF 160 also reminds us of how far the US Army has come over the years. Well Done those guys....and as Edwards tells it....it is a team effort. |
Originally Posted by harrogate
(Post 11103489)
A AC-130J Commando II is Kabul-bound right now. That's what'll be tanking the 160th's choppers on their way out.
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Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09
(Post 11103563)
No it will not - the AC-130J is not a tanker !
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Originally Posted by Easy Street
(Post 11103422)
The only people who could make that judgement were the Afghan people.
Try looking at the situation through their eyes... Yes, it's not our place to decide for them. Yes, you just can't foist democracy on a society that's never had it. But I really, really feel for all the women and girls in Afghanistan. Their future is utterly dire now. |
Originally Posted by medod
(Post 11103629)
Yes, it's not our place to decide for them. Yes, you just can't foist democracy on a society that's never had it. But I really, really feel for all the women and girls in Afghanistan. Their future is utterly dire now.
If you want democracy to stick. (My point of reference is South Korea). Democracy needs to grow from the ground up and even then it can be a fragile thing. |
90 members of Flag Officers 4 America have now called for SecDef Austin & Chairman JCS Gen Milley to resign:
Media and PR (flagofficers4america.com) |
Taliban SF now having a video opportunity with the abandoned US Dept of State special CH-46 Sea Knight / "Phrog" fleet
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 11103679)
Nation building takes two generations. At least, if you hope for anything like a lasting change.
If you want democracy to stick. (My point of reference is South Korea). Democracy needs to grow from the ground up and even then it can be a fragile thing. Does that work in "reverse" in converting from a democratic capitalist system to a communist system? |
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