PACAF Calls for E-7s to Replace E-3 AWACS
 

https://www.airforcemag.com/pacaf-bo...ing-e-3-awacs/

PACAF Boss Calls for E-7s to Replace Aging E-3 AWACS

The head of Pacific Air Forces is calling for new aircraft in his theater to meet the need for air superiority, including a quick short-term replacement for aging airborne warning and control aircraft and, in the future, the service’s next generation fighter.

PACAF boss Gen. Kenneth S. Wilsbach told reporters during the Air Force Association’s virtual Aerospace Warfare Symposium he is advocating for the Air Force to quickly procure the E-7 Wedgetail airborne early warning and control aircraft, the Boeing 737-based aircraft already in use by Australia and South Korea to replace aging E-3 Sentrys that have struggled to get in the air.

“The fact is, we actually need something relatively quick because of the reliability of the E-3,” Wilsbach said. “It gets harder and harder to get airborne.”

The Air Force’s E-3 AWACS is based on the older Boeing 707. There have been recent upgrades, and the fleet is expected to fly into the 2030s, though Wilsbach said “it’s challenged at the moment because of how old it is.”

Within the Pacific, PACAF will be tasked with fighting in anti-access, area-denial areas set up by adversaries, which would require both takedowns of surface-to-air missiles and taking away an enemy’s air-to-air capability. The modernized E-7 would help with domain awareness, and then PACAF would need an advanced fighter to complete the missions.

To that end, Wilsbach said he is advocating for the Air Force’s future Next Generation Air Dominance platform and its advanced weapons “so that we can stay relevant as our adversaries continue to advance.”

“Air superiority is foundational to most other things that we would want to be able to do in our theater,” he said. “Because if you don’t have air superiority, then most everything else that you want to do is really held at risk.”

Easy as they could grab a couple of E-7's that the RAF thinks it doesn't need...

I believe there are a few 737 Max airframes going spare.

Pity they're not build on a Max frame but a B737-700NG with big wings

I'm sure Mr B would be happy to offer them an upgrade - at a price of course.................

Sorry to be anal, but not "big wings", they are -800 wings. Same size and planform but strengthened for a higher gross weight.

I just checked with a friend at Boeing Australia here in Brisbane who writes the technical manuals for the E-7A program and he said they internally refer to the structure as the 700 [BBJ] with the big wing off the 800

Well they may call it 'big wing' - but physically it's the same size, just stronger.
BTW, the 737-700 BBJ already has the -800 wing structure (to give higher gross weights and longer range compared to the standard -700).

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-...ombat-command/

Four questions with the head of Air Combat Command

…..If anybody asked me what’s my priority in the ISR portfolio, I have to say the AWACS. We frankly have to be wide-eyed. We have to acknowledge that unlike our closest treaty allies — the Australians and the [U.K. Royal Air Force]— we do not field a cutting-edge, air moving target indicator, or AMTI, capability like they do with their E-7A Wedgetail.

In my opinion, you’re not a true fifth-gen Air Force until your fifth-gen fighters have fifth-gen weapons and fifth-gen sensing, like an AMTI [aircraft] to go with them. We’ve got to make sure we’ve got the surveillance piece and the weapons piece to go with our platform piece.

Other Air Force officials advocated for the service to buy Wedgetail, but the necessary funding never ended up in the budget. Meanwhile, the AWACS inventory is only getting older. How long can the service go without replacing AWACS?

…..We are in the single-digit number of years before that airplane votes with its wings and votes with its metal structure that it’s just not viable to operate and sustain any longer.

To your point about Wedgetail, I frankly don’t know exactly where our budgets are going to fall when it hits the reality of what we actually have [available]. But I can tell you unambiguously that it stays pretty much close to my No. 1 requirement as a force provider.

Basically a sole source contract has been issued to boeing to study if and what modification would be required on the wedgetail to meet baseline for american service

https://breakingdefense.com/2021/10/...-7a-wedgetail/

It’d be a nice change for the RAAF crews to be offering training for the USAF crews. (Lots of assumptions there of course):ok:

"The US Air Force plans to award Boeing a contract for analysis of the E-7A Wedgetail" - why not just talk to them directly?

And what are the short term alternatives??

The E-7 is at the top of the tree, The yanks are well acquainted with it and speak very highly.

Of course they have to give Boeing money. Don't you still have to pay a working-girl, even if you just want to talk?

They dont do anything for free, but said it might be a we will pay you million to do this report if we decide not to go ahead you get the money, if we decide to go ahead that amount is the down payment. I have seen this in contacts before, not at this scale but still a million or 2 type stuff

As to short term alternatives going to guess nothing in the same class as E-3 and E-7. Theres Erieye mounted on a embraer 145 or global 6000. India were going to do Erieye on an A330 but that died a death.

Really options are a E-7, Clean sheet or E-3 life extensions

Also from what I understand australia gets a cut of all E-7 sales so could be good if the yanks buy some it might bring some other countries out of the woodwork to buy some to replace thier E-3's

Changed to using an Airbus 319.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/09...the-air-force/

The UK AWACS support experience was once described to me as: (Phone rings) "Hello? Boeing here. That will be 1 million dollars, please. What is your question?"

This may explain why the contract eventually went to Northrop Grumman.

Supposedly that all changed when Condit became CEO (1994 IIRC). Before that, Boeing almost gave away the post-sale support (which was a major reason why operators loved Boeing). Condit decided that post-sale support should be a 'profit center' - and started charging big bucks for what had formerly been free or very inexpensive. Funny thing, many customer airlines who had been long time Boeing only suddenly started talking to Airbus.
In the late 1990s, UPS (who was operating new build 767F and 757F) surprisingly announced a big order for A300 freighters. Boeing issued a press release that said Airbus had basically given the aircraft away to keep the A300 line open. UPS responded that 'Yes, we got a real good price, but we're so mad at Boeing right now that we would have picked Airbus even if it was more expensive' :ugh:
Sadly, Condit and Stonecypher didn't get the message, and continued down that road (they even started charging for the Everett factory tour - which had been free for decades - the tour center also had to be a 'profit center') - which is how Boeing ended up in the mess it's currently in.

Salute!

Thanks for the insight, TD.
===============
I like the idea of the new AWACS, mainly for the cosmic radar. The sucker looks like slow F-35, but has acquisiiton and tracking of both air and ground tgts the E-3 has not dreamed of.. Didn't realize how good it was/is.

Gums sends...

When accountants start to run a company, they only think of bottom line in short term.
No concept of long term profitability.
So many examples of disastrous medium term consequences for the company and shareholders.

https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/st...d-allies-alike

The Boeing 737 AEW&C is a state-of-the-art system providing powerful airborne surveillance, communications and battle management.

The 737 AEW&C system encompasses both the Boeing 737-700 aircraft platform and a variety of aircraft control and advanced radar systems. Consisting of components created by Boeing and Northrop Grumman, the 737 AEW&C represents the standard for future airborne early warning systems. The E-7A Wedgetail AEW&C functions include:

• A steerable beam, L-band, electronically scanned array that provides optimal performance in range, tracking and accuracy;
• Radar that can track airborne and maritime targets simultaneously;
• Assistance to the mission crew in directing the control of high-performance fighter aircraft while continuously scanning the operational area;
• A "top hat" portion that provides a practical solution for fore and aft coverage while maintaining the low drag profile of the dorsal array system – enabling the MESA system to be installed on the mid-size 737-700 platform without significant impact to aircraft performance;
• An integrated identification friend or foe (IFF) function that shares the primary radar arrays to reduce weight, improve reliability and simplify target correlation; and
• Advanced open-system architecture with standards-based design for cost-effective integration and add-on flexibility.

Whimsical thought - if the USAF does buy the Wedgetail, will they call it the E-7 or the E-12? E-7 was never used,but was intended to be used on what became the EC-18 range aircraft

Boeing is saying they are expecting an E-7 order early next year

Boeing executive says USAF will order E-7A next year ? Alert 5

It will be interesting to see how many and any changes the USAF requires- a large order could be the impetus to use the latest 737 airframe or even something else. A more modest order <10 with no changes would indicate it being just a stop gap to bridge between the E3 and Integrated Space based systems originally planned to replace the E3. Currently the USAF operates around 10 E3Cs out of the original 34 E3As the remaining 22 are E3Bs ; 2 E3s have been lost or written off. . Given the recent investment its logical that the E3Cs will be retained and some or all of the E3Bs replaced by the E7A. Good news for the Commonwealth of Australia (RAAF) as they probably receive some sort of license fee on the improvements they funded on their E7s after they were fist delivered. The flight of 3 RAF E7s will be to the same standard. (I cannot call it a squadron!!!).

They were talking of gap filling. How many they consider needing, will be determined. Also they may add tech to it. UK and AU may get in on their update. An AUKUS win for everyone.

That would be nice, going forward together with common systems. (And I fear politics would of course interfere with a smooth implementation, but maybe this time it won't?)

Could economies of scale mean the UK could piggy back a USAF order and afford the other two after all?

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022...ement-in-2023/

Air Force eyes contract for AWACS replacement in 2023

WASHINGTON — The Air Force said this week a contract to buy a replacement for the aging E-3G Sentry — also known as the AWACS, or Airborne Warning and Control System aircraft — could come in fiscal 2023.

According to a request for information released Tuesday, the service wants to know within 30 days how a potential contractor would deliver at least two prototype aircraft to replace the AWACS, including ground support and training systems, within five years of an expected 2023 award.

The Air Force noted the RFI was issued for its own planning purposes and is not a promise to issue a request for proposals in the future. But it provides the fullest picture yet of the time frame and requirements the service may be eying for the E-3′s replacement.…..

The Air Force wants companies responding to the RFI to explain how their proposed replacement aircrafts would deliver multiple capabilities the AWACS now provides. Those capabilities should include an advanced Airborne Moving Target Indication radar that could maintain a 360-degree surveillance picture while homing in on targets and perform real-time data processing of targets, the RFI said.

The Air Force also wants to know how a replacement aircraft would tell the difference between friendly and enemy forces, conduct radar-based maritime surveillance, and conduct simultaneously at least six battle management command and control missions — including air traffic control, close air support, suppression of enemy air defenses, air refueling, and combat search and rescue….

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022...replace-awacs/

It’s the Wedgetail: Air Force to buy E-7 to replace AWACS

WASHINGTON — The Air Force announced Tuesday it will replace part of the E-3 Sentry, or Airborne Warning and Control System, fleet with Boeing E-7 Wedgetails.

In a release, the service said the decision to go with the Wedgetail was based on market research and that it is “the only platform” that could meet all of the Defense Department’s requirements for tactical battle management, command and control, and target tracking in time to replace the aging E-3, which dates back to the 1970s.

The Air Force plans to award a contract to Boeing in fiscal 2023 for the Wedgetail, which was developed by Australia for its air force.

The service’s proposed 2023 budget calls for retiring 15 E-3s, or about half the fleet, from Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma. It would provide $227 million in research, development, test and evaluation funds for the replacement. The first rapid prototype E-7 would be delivered in fiscal 2027.

The Air Force said it plans to fund a second rapid prototype aircraft in fiscal 2024 and aims to make a production decision the following year on fielding more Wedgetails. The release did not say how many Wedgetails the Air Force might eventually buy.….

Makes sense as it is the only AEW & C modern platform out there at moment unless someone is going to create a new Off the shelf platform,

Scramble website has a CGI
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ee58fc863.jpeg

cheers

Not even slightly rapid prototype
 

So it's going to take Boeing and the USAF four years to complete the first 'rapid prototype' of an type that's based on an in-production airframe (P-8A) and is currently in service with a 5-eyes partner?
:\

You can bet big money that the USAF isn't getting the same configuration Wedgetail that Australia got. It's part of the USAF DNA - they gold plate everything, plus the basic electronics of the Wedgetail are almost two decades old - that's ancient in the electronics world - so I suspect serious updating of the electronics suite is going on.

One can only hope that they spend money to try to improve it. It will benefit the UK and AU (AUKUS) in updates.

"You can bet big money that the USAF isn't getting the same configuration Wedgetail that Australia got. It's part of the USAF DNA - they gold plate everything, plus the basic electronics of the Wedgetail are almost two decades old - that's ancient in the electronics world - so I suspect serious updating of the electronics suite is going on."

And here comes another vast cost overrun and late in service debacle.................. :(​​​​​​​

I would hope that the USAF has learned valuable lessons after the utter absurdity of the KC-46A debacle....

Years ago Bill Gunston wrote "history is littered with cases of aircraft that were only supposed to have a few modifications but turned out to cost more than a clean sheet design"

he was talking about the A3D/B-66 disaster (he exempted the USN/USAF Phantom II and the Seafire) but you have to say it's a sad chronicle all in all

The FIRST priority should be introducing a standard, working aircraft (even if you have to eat Vegemite) - worry about mods later - but of course there isn't much in that for either the manufacturers or the Programme Officers

If the electronics are c. 20 years old it will probably be impossible to buy any identical additional systems.

Whilst the airframes should not take long to deliver, depending on the state/queue length of the production lines involved, the USAF has to set up a complete logistic support arrangement for the Wedgetail, or ask UK and/or AUS to expand theirs, before they can bring the thing into service. The proposed timescale looks reasonably difficult for that.

That said, it does look like another opportunity for a programme Charlie Foxtrot. One would hope Boeing, DoD and USAF will have some top-notch folk in the management team, and that the pork barrel will be well hidden.

N

The procurement process seems a bit different. Rather than a long drawn out competition, it seems to be "We'll have one of those..."

Slightly different airframe (700 v 800) and iirc the 700ER isn't in series production at the moment (albeit they did do one for the RAF

Twitter

) - the timescale for the RAF from order to delivery of the first is 4 years - the conversion from 737 to E-7 takes about 2 years, so if they are going for anew build test airframe, they'll have to wait for the production slot too.

The E-7A is not built on the same platform as the P-8A which is off the B737-800 and the E-7A is off the B737-700....

They will have to change the galley for $15 million. It currently has a meat pie warmer and as you said, are also doing toasted cheese and vegemite sandwiches.