RAF Mosquito
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3...ones-k0cdk8lds

£30m deal to build Britain’s first fleet of unmanned fighter drones

Britain’s first fleet of unmanned fighter aircraft will be developed in Northern Ireland following a £30 million investment by the Ministry of Defence.

The “loyal wingman” aircraft, as it has been nicknamed, will be designed to fly at high speeds alongside fighter jets such as the Typhoon or F-35.

The contract to design and manufacture the prototype, which is expected to support 100 jobs, was handed to Spirit AeroSystems, an American company, in Belfast in a three-year deal.

Team Mosquito will develop the RAF’s Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft (Lanca) technology, with a vehicle flight-test programme expected by the end of 2023. The MoD plans to start manufacturing the first aircraft by 2025.

Armed with missiles, surveillance and electronic warfare technology, it will be Britain’s first uncrewed aircraft able to target and shoot down enemy aircraft and survive against surface-to-air missiles. The crewed aircraft will be able to assign tasks such as electronic warfare, surveillance or bombing missions to the Lanca drones, increasing the air power at a lower cost and risk to RAF aircrew.......

Richard Berthon, director of the MoD’s Future Combat Air, said the RAF’s Lanca technology was a vital element of its future combat capabilities. “Autonomous ‘loyal wingman’ aircraft create the opportunity to expand, diversify and rapidly upgrade combat air forces in a cost-effective way, now and in the future,” he said.

Mike Wigston, chief of the air staff, said: “We’re taking a revolutionary approach, looking at a game-changing mix of swarming drones and uncrewed fighter aircraft . . . alongside piloted fighters like Tempest, that will transform the combat battlespace in a way not seen since the advent of the jet age.”......

So as well as combat it can perform ISTAR roles as well? Why not call it the Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Identification Surveillance Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance, or "LANCISTAR" instead of Mosquito?

I'd like to see a fast jet pilot - in combat, flying both his own aircraft and a swarm of drones.......

Wensleydale
 

The whole point of AI is that it is pre-programmed to know what to do and follow a bunch of pre-determined parameters.

If it is well designed and well integrated the FJ pilot won’t need to do very much at all. The drones are just there as assets at his/her disposal. Like having extra missiles or a longer range sensor.

I really don’t think it will involve a pilot flying a Typhoon/F35/Tempest whilst simultaneously controlling a bunch of drones with a controller!

BV

Spot on BV. And quite aside from AI an autonomous system can be wonderfully dumb - in a positive sense. No AI whatsoever required for the following:

Follow the ACO outbound to the millimetre.
Don’t run out of gas.
Don’t transgress any known ACM.
Don’t penetrate a known MEZ. (I’ll let you know by text if there are any new ones).
Don’t leave the FIR.
Don’t fly into me.
Don’t get more than 20nm from me.
Don’t employ without my say so.
If you’re near a POI and can capture an ISR product please do.
If we lose comms for X minutes go back to CAP, for Y minutes then RTB.
Go home obeying the ACO to the millimetre.

All things you might hope your manned wingy would achieve but that you could never guarantee - now simply check boxes on a mission planner.

Hopefully that will stem all the usual naysayers who think we just can't manage without their insight since they left. :rolleyes:

Voice activated, secure data linked - 'echelon starboard go'; 'diamond nine go'; … …
Advanced formation flying.
Basic training

At last - the movement of the Red Arrows to Waddington makes sense. One jet, eight drones and Red 1 flies his aerobatics routine with everything else on pre-programmed automatic pilot.

s
Indeed. According to Project Astra it will be so easy to fly manned and unmanned vehicles that “Other professions” will do it in their spare time.

If technology could make it easy to fly, can you think of a reason why they shouldn't? Or should we purposely make aircraft difficult to fly?

Give me easy every day, then I can focus on the job at hand.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...es-jet-emerges

New Unmanned Loyal Wingman Design Based On Stealthy “Son Of Ares" Jet Emerges

Scaled Composites, together with its parent company Northrop Grumman, has unveiled a new unmanned aircraft design, known as the Model 437, which could be configured as a "loyal wingman" intended to work networked together with manned platforms. As such, it could meet the requirements of various efforts seeking to develop, at least in part, this kind of capability, such as the U.S. Air Force's Skyborg program and the U.K. Royal Air Force's Project Mosquito. The Model 437 is also notably derived from earlier stealthy Model 401, also known as the "Son of Ares," which Scaled Composites has now confirmed is intended to be pilot-optional.......


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....858bc1e23.jpeg

Twitter

This is a long video but worth listening to IMO. I've put it at a point where you might get a sense of the state of the game in AI. Prof Furber is one of the creators of the ARM instruction set that's powering all your phones and he is now working on a project that has built a neuromorphic computer at Manchester University which has 1 million processors with an architecture that's designed for emulating spiking neural networks.

Elsewhere in the video you'll hear how a room--sized machine could now emulate a mouse brain if we knew enough about how it works to create a model.

This is not to be down on AI at all but I feel that those of us outside the field might not have a very good idea of the difficulty of the challenge.

But they’re not looking at AI, just enough algorithmic ability to target independently and perform air combat.

https://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2020-08-26

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2021...ongshot-drone/

I am assuming they are cheaper to purchase.................

We are going to need large numbers of these and places to store them. I assume they launch from a runway too.

And large numbers of trained technicians to maintain what is in essence an airframe.

It'll be interesting to see these develop.

Arc

Those such as Longshot are planned to be able to be air launched by the B-21 and perhaps underwing my other platforms. They could also possibly by ground launched by truck based launchers - g forces not being an issue.

The advantage of such a platform is that it doesn’t need to practice to remain current so no training flights are required and they can be stored in hermetically sealed containers for prolonged periods negating the need for maintenance with software updates and power provided by umbilicals if necessary.

Build a version with folding wings and control surface and they could even be container launched by ships and submarines - a major factor in a region with long transit times such as the pacific.

I did read about that and I'm sure that impressive things will get done but I just caution that demos like this often include "simplifications" of one kind or another that don't get emphasised in the tests and billions have been and will be spent on things that have horrible behavior in edge cases. While you're busy thinking how amazing it is you should remember that it might be about as smart as e.g. a bee - if we're lucky. That leaves a *lot* of possible situations which it might not be able to handle. This is not forever - because the technology is advancing - it's just that it gets hyped so much that one tends to lose all sense of proportion. There is a debate you could have about Algorithmic approaches versus machine learning or deep neural networks but as I understand it many of the cool things that can be done (such as identifying things based on signals or images) will require ML or Neural nets and for these it is not easy to prove that there is no odd or unexpected behavior caused by biases in the training data. So I think it's still more the case that we'll be using humans-with-ai-assistance for a while. I'm not important in the field or anything like that all so FWIW my opinion doesn't carry any weight.

That is actually really interesting - especially the storage aspects...... not sure we will ever have a platform to air launch ours though.

Arc

I know you Englishman think that anything worthwhile can only be built and operated by HM subjects but get onboard or get out of the way...if you wouldn't mind awfully.

https://www.airforce.gov.au/our-mission/loyal-wingman

Such vehicles, just like their manned counterparts, will be designed around a threat and a theatre of operations - and the size, range and performance of that required by the RAF in the European theatre will probably be different to that required by the RAAF/USAAF/USN in the Pacific theatre.

That dichotomy was shown in the Cold War era when the RAF wanted a long range two seat interceptor to meet the SACLANT and manned bomber/QRA roles whilst everyone else was buying F-16s to counter the Central Region short range dogfight threat.

Now, that doesn’t mean that export potential and OOA concerns might not end up with both Tempest and Mosquito having long legs and being similar to the Loyal Wingman - but it does mean just buying off the shelf from Australia isn’t a given.

As for the idea the UK would only buy something designed in the UK, I’d point out we bought and operated the F-4 for decades, alongside the C-130, Chinook, Apache and many others, and have in the last couple of decades bought the F-35, C-17, P-8, Voyager, R1…. And of course the E-7 Wedgetail…..

My previous post #13 also pointed out that various Grumman and other designs are possible candidates for Mosquito, Spirit AeroSystems in Belfast may lead the programme, but I doubt they’ll be starting from scratch….

Well you did modify the F-4 significantly with the addition of the Speys but I was merely pointing out (in an epic fail attempt at UK-Oz banter) that the term "Loyal Wingman" was already taken. Just so you know even the name Wedgetail come from Australia. Its named after a very impressive indigenous eagle. :ok:

I dislike the name loyal wingman, maybe australia and UK can combine, we bring the flying hardware, they bring the name

Will bring electronic warfare and hacking to a all new level. Will be a busy airspace when the opposition have of them as well.

Press release

Royal Air Force Rapid Capabilities Office announce review of Project Mosquito

Project Mosquito, the future uncrewed Combat Aircraft Technology Demonstration being explored by the Royal Air Force Rapid Capabilities Office (RCO), will not proceed beyond the design phase.

I was a going to say I can see the future, but lets be honest it was pretty obvious that the mosquito program was doomed from the start

£30m wasted!

300 million saved, last thing I read was 300 million for development between all 3 phases. Next was supposed be about 130 million

Yup, predictable just like Taranis. Autonomous aircraft are so far away, despite what the progressive visionaries say, and I would be amazed if we saw a fully autonomous UCAV before 2050. Even then, I suspect it will always have a human “on the loop”. We don’t even have an uncrewed aircraft that can fly autonomously in unsegregated Class G airspace yet, so really the Mosquito was going to be little more than a radio controlled Hawk (wasn’t that a Jindivik?).

It will also put the mockers on Project VIXEN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Vixen

And yet no-one said it at the start.

You never know this might actually be a way to obtain the same outcome with out spending money on a technology demonstrator deemed superflous to the end goals of LANCA by Project Mosquito Phase 1. (I may just be naïve.)

From the original Mosquito press release.

'Under LANCA, a technology demonstrator project known as ‘Mosquito’ has awarded contracts for Phase 1 of the work, which will produce a preliminary system design for an unmanned air vehicle and assessment of the key risk areas and cost-capability trade-offs for an operational concept.'

From the 24 Jun 2022 MoD press release:

'Air Commodore Jez Holmes, Head of the Rapid Capabilities Office said: Through Project Mosquito and other experimentation activities the Royal Air Force has made substantial progress and gained significant value in understanding and harnessing a range of future uncrewed capabilities. This decision maximises the learning accrued to date and enables a change of direction for the LANCA programme. The Rapid Capabilities Office will now quickly launch activities to aggressively pursue the RAF’s unchanged firm commitment to integrate advanced uncrewed capabilities into the near-term force mix with more immediate beneficial value.'

(My emphasis)

The press release also says:.

Deciding to not proceed with the specific manufacturing technology demonstrator will not impact on the wider intent to build the most capable and cost-effective force mix possible, or the “Loyal Wingman” concepts under investigation within the Future Combat Air System Enterprise. The programme remains focused on the post-2035 capability space, where integration through a system-of-systems approach has been a key requirement from the outset.

The decision was informed by parallel analysis and capability experimentation conducted by the RAF and the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl). The accumulation of analysis concluded that more beneficial capability and cost-effectiveness appears achievable through exploration of smaller, less costly, but still highly capable additive capabilities.

The market already has leaders in the tech that Mosquito hoped to be.

Kratos
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....993098b4d.jpeg

Ghost Bat
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8f4fc4e44.jpeg

Stingray
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5cf95b7fa.jpeg

So:

The programme remains focused on the post-2035 capability space

The Rapid Capabilities Office will now quickly launch activities to aggressively pursue the RAF's unchanged firm commitment to integrate advanced uncrewed capabilities into the near-term force mix with more immediate beneficial value.'

Or is 2035 near term?

It wasn't obvious to me, nor to those who poured £30 million into it!

So what made it obvious to you?

Is this why Taranis fizzled out?
Why have people tried so hard to produce aircraft in this class?
Are the Kratos aircraft, MQ-25 and Ghost Bat similarly 'doomed' do you think?

In military aircraft procurement terms it’s blindingly fast…

MQ-25 is a different catagory, its a tanker, a much simpler role to engineer for. Considering its already out, flying and giving fuel something will happen with it. I imagine there will be a lot of countries looking at it

Skyborg program (not kratos) and Ghost bat are inspirational programs but we will get something less in the end. I think they will be a dumber just advanced escorts for things like AWACS and tankers, at least initially then later possibility of a more heavy integration with fighters in combat

rattman - agreed.

Jackonicko - the Stingray started off as the Unmanned Carrier-Launched Airborne Surveillance and Strike (UCLASS) in 2010. It was then vaunted to have an AESA RADAR with AIM-120 with a robotic wingman notion for F/A-18 and F-35C. By 2016 it was all scaled down to Carrier Based Air Refuelling System (CBARS) and “a little ISR”. Also, they hurriedly recruited, trained and invented a whole new career field (737X) as Aerial Vehicle Operator (AVO) Warrant Officers - 450 of them. They join the Naval Aviators (Pilots), Naval Flight Officers (WSOs, EWOs, TACCOs, etc…) and Naval Aircrew (Crewmen, Cryptologists, EW Specialists, etc…) as a 4th flying badge that requires flying training. The AVO’s in depth aircrew training was required as the levels of autonomy originally envisaged were just not there. They have to complete Officers Candidate School, Ground School, Basic Flying Training and then MQ-25 specific training.

As for Taranis then again there was a great vision from the ever long Project CHURCHILL lead in. Taranis was always called a demonstrator and it cost the taxpayer ~£180M. Again, it was little more than a radio-controlled Hawk, with no ability to let it go “off tether” without a human tugging on its leash. I think it last flew 6 years ago and is effectively shelved. It also drew on Corax, Raven and HERTi - the latter being a pretty facsimile of what General Atomics had been producing for years.

Let’s fast forward to General Atomics Protector, with a semi-autonomous capability (auto take off and land), that programme is at the cutting edge of current uncrewed production aircraft. The tricky bit is making it certified with a suitable detect and avoid system - but again it requires human pilots and sensor operators to make it function. Granted, just like cars with ‘driver assist’ then I suspect that more and more autonomy will be built in. In the car industry there are 5 levels - 1 - no automation, 2 - hands on shared control, 3 - eyes off, 4 - mind off and 5 - no controls. At best in aircraftI believe we are at Level 2 and levels 3, 4 and 5 for a large aircraft in non-segregated airspace is 25+ years away. Then again, it won’t happen overnight. However, the various aircraft manufacturers will keep peddling ‘snake oil’ photos of fancy looking uncrewed concepts with bold claims of loyal wingmen and autonomous fighters - but with immature tech to back that up.

I think the problem may just be that if the "wingman" can do all this stuff, it costs nearly as much as a proper fighter but depends on one being nearby to operate, so it's not cheap and it's too valuable to take many more chances with.

If the improvements can go into sensors, countermeasures, or weapons that can be carried by the "formation leader", you could just do that and not bother building a whole second aircraft.

Steam chicken
 

There are other things to consider. Firstly it might be wingmen rather than wingman. That means a lot more weapons and coverage than one person in one aircraft could manage. Also, people are bloody expensive and take time to train and are a serious limitation due to their physical constraints and requirements.

I personally think unmanned/partially manned is the obvious future solution. It just needs proper investment early to sort it.

BV