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AAC AH-64E Arrives in the UK
ZM704 and ZM705 looking rather smart were seen leaving Brize Norton by road today. One assumes that they must have arrived by C-17 in the last few days.
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To Boscombe or Wattisham?
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To Wattisham.
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I assume the first four AH2s ZM700-703 are still at Fort Rucker?
In 2018 the plan was to have 10 AH2/Es by the end of 2020 with the AH1/Ds reduced to 35 and 22 v 21 by the end of 2021. Would be interesting to know if this is likely to get back on track - last I heard the schedule had slipped by 6 months which would explain first deliveries in late November. Also when are the three crew trainers are scheduled for delivery? (if they haven't already been). I assume to ATIL? The 2020 total accounts for all/most of the stored airframes which were RTP for components for the remanufactured element of the new airframes - I think I read 70% somewhere. The AAC goes environmental - reduce, reuse, recylcic, (Hat, coat etc...) |
At least one Longbow Crew Trainer has been delivered. ATIL no longer exists, BDUK now provide the training.
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Originally Posted by HEDP
(Post 10935261)
At least one Longbow Crew Trainer has been delivered. ATIL no longer exists, BDUK now provide the training.
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Keep taking the pills.....
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Seems a bit of a faff to deliver to Brize and then road transport to Wattisham. Anyone any idea why they weren't flown directly into Wattisham?
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Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
(Post 10937962)
Seems a bit of a faff to deliver to Brize and then road transport to Wattisham. Anyone any idea why they weren't flown directly into Wattisham?
Would appear the r/w is past its best. |
Fair enough, VMT.
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Would appear the r/w is past its best. |
Did we get a discount because they were only part-assembled?
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We didn't get a discount when the first D-model ones were flown in to Middle Wallop from Yeovil and the MFDs removed from them, put in a car and driven back to Yeovil for a repeat trip. They were classed as delivered, contract met, money paid.
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Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
(Post 10937962)
Seems a bit of a faff to deliver to Brize and then road transport to Wattisham. Anyone any idea why they weren't flown directly into Wattisham?
*Thread Drift Alert* This reminded me of being held up trying to get out of Cemetery Hill in Odiham on the way to work in 2018. Only to find something larger was also avoiding the road works. Again wondering - as I believe it was on it's way to Mali - why a C-17 hadn't come to take it. I know a C-17 brought one to Odiham in April this year (see below). https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8521f78c4a.jpg Source @GHRBerksHants via RAF Odiham Twitter https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5733ee2588.jpg Source RAF Odiham Twitter |
23 October 2023 "The first regiment flying the British Army’s new Apache AH-64E attack helicopter has been declared ready for frontline duty." Is this a long winded way of declaring IOC achieved?
https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-eve...tlefield-test/ |
I guess this isn't IOC as it only relates to one operating regiment, rather than the capability as a whole.
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Are they still as slow or have they done something to get them to fly faster?
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Lots of things towed up to Odiham, a Puma from Micheldever to Odiham, using a tow bar and a Landrover is one I remember.. :)
It does seem strange not to assemble and fly them from Brize, after all there will be more coming. The Chinny's were done at the docks before flying to Odiham, and bar the odd bit falling off, it was successful (forward port emergency cabin window assy, over I think Southampton) |
Originally Posted by chevvron
(Post 11527906)
Are they still as slow or have they done something to get them to fly faster?
AH-64E will deliver a significant enhancement to the UK's 1st Aviation Brigade New engines, drivetrain, main rotor blades and avionics will deliver a significant boost in aircraft performance. Embedded system-level diagnostics will increase aircraft availability. Extended range Fire Control Radar with maritime mode will ensure the aircraft can operate in the maritime environment. Link 16, Mode 5 Identification Friend or Foe and, in time, Manned-Unmanned Teaming bring theatre entry-standard equipment fits and vastly increase crew battle-space awareness. The UK has strived to make the aircraft best value for money by utilising a large amount of parts from the Apache Mark 1, which reduces production costs and aims to be more environmentally sustainable. Plus, the new aircraft will be easier to maintain and more reliable, so that it will be more straightforward to sustain in any operational environment. The first two new Apache Attack Helicopters (AH-64E variant) have been delivered to the British Army from the US Government. They arrived at Wattisham Flying Station on 26 Nov 20 with Aviation Technicians from 7 Aviation Support Battalion, Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (7 Avn Spt Bn REME), who will maintain and service the new aircraft. |
Twas in August, I saw another batch of AH-64E depart Mildenhall for Wattisham, after arriving few days earlier over the weekend
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....29a5dc81e1.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....004ae60a0f.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1cbfc08307.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....35b9a27d86.jpg serials obviously blocked out... I have lost count of how many have been flown in back of either AMC / AFRC C-5M or even C-17A in the last 24 months. cheers cheers |
Please, but am I really missing something as to why they are not flown from their arrival point to Wattisham?
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Originally Posted by Martin the Martian
(Post 11527968)
Please, but am I really missing something as to why they are not flown from their arrival point to Wattisham?
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Apologies if this has been answered before, but ISTR that the UK's Ds had been fitted with flotation gear, whereas I think I read somewhere that no provision has been made to fit flotation gear to the latest Es. Is that still the case?
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Originally Posted by Frostchamber
(Post 11528002)
Apologies if this has been answered before, but ISTR that the UK's Ds had been fitted with flotation gear, whereas I think I read somewhere that no provision has been made to fit flotation gear to the latest Es. Is that still the case?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....37c8358c9f.jpg |
Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
(Post 11527979)
There will be a reason, but I don't see why it's anybody's concern but those responsible.
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
(Post 11527881)
I guess this isn't IOC as it only relates to one operating regiment, rather than the capability as a whole.
The Apache AH-64E initial operating capability (IOC) is defined as one AH-64E v6 squadron 'at Readiness', cleared to support operational use with full security accreditation; the delivery of two linked and accredited land simulators to conduct mission rehearsal training; and a long-term maintenance and training package. IOC is expected to be achieved in 2023 and Full Operating Capability in 2026. Minister of State responding to question from Mark Francois 17 October 2022 I haven't heard anything about its cold weather capabilities, the AH.1 successfully operated on exercise with the RM north of the Arctic Circle. I remember reading this involved additional treatments to the airframes. |
Originally Posted by Martin the Martian
(Post 11527968)
Please, but am I really missing something as to why they are not flown from their arrival point to Wattisham?
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I think that is a picture of one at Operational Readiness. MOD beancounters have determined this will significantly increase airframe life, while reducing operational costs. Retains 2 man crew, just needs a longer intercom lead to reach between cockpit and truck cabin.
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Not wishing to denigrate the REME who I'm sure do a wonderful job but years ago at my 'resident' AAC Squadron at Farnborough (originally 664 but later re-numbered 656), a pilot walked out to a Sioux and called for startup. I saw his rotors turning then occupied myself with other traffic.
A few minutes later there was a phone call from this pilot apologising for not telling the tower he had shut down again because 'I was a bit annoyed because when I started up, (it had been for an air test after some maintenance) I discovered the REME had fitted the rotor blades upside down'! |
Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
(Post 11527979)
There will be a reason, but I don't see why it's anybody's concern but those responsible.
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Originally Posted by Martin the Martian
(Post 11527968)
Please, but am I really missing something as to why they are not flown from their arrival point to Wattisham?
cheers |
Originally Posted by chopper2004
(Post 11528731)
The runway is in dire condition at Wattisham, as crab says in post 12
cheers |
Theres much Gnashing of teeth in defence circles about picking JAGM over integrating brimstone 2/3 on the apaches. We dont know JAGM specs and capabilities, but using its publically released its inferior to spike which is integrated and paper specs of brimstone. So its either a **** up decision or they know something we dont know I hope its the latter knowing the former is a strong contender
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Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 11528813)
Theres much Gnashing of teeth in defence circles about picking JAGM over integrating brimstone 2/3 on the apaches. We dont know JAGM specs and capabilities, but using its publically released its inferior to spike which is integrated and paper specs of brimstone. So its either a **** up decision or they know something we dont know I hope its the latter knowing the former is a strong contender
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Originally Posted by chopper2004
(Post 11528731)
The runway is in dire condition at Wattisham, as crab says in post 12
cheers If road movement was essential, I’d have thought Stansted would be a more convenient arrival point. |
Originally Posted by 212man
(Post 11529021)
If road movement was essential, I’d have thought Stansted would be a more convenient arrival point.
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[QUOTE=212man;11529021]I think the question was why didn’t they fly from Brize Norton to Wattisham (after reassembly), rather than move by road?
If road movement was essential, I’d have thought Stansted would be a more convenient arrival point.[/QUOTE The first because Brize is the wrong place to reassemble and flight test a new cab. There is no support there and the operational tempo of the station is built around heavy fixed wing. The second because it generates an unnecessary airframe cycle for the C17 in going empty from STN to BZN. Additionally, Stansted will not want a non-essential military movement, any more than LHR would, so they would charge like a wounded rhinoceros if pressurized. N |
[QUOTE=Bengo;11529163]
Originally Posted by 212man
(Post 11529021)
I think the question was why didn’t they fly from Brize Norton to Wattisham (after reassembly), rather than move by road?
If road movement was essential, I’d have thought Stansted would be a more convenient arrival point.[/QUOTE The first because Brize is the wrong place to reassemble and flight test a new cab. There is no support there and the operational tempo of the station is built around heavy fixed wing. The second because it generates an unnecessary airframe cycle for the C17 in going empty from STN to BZN. Additionally, Stansted will not want a non-essential military movement, any more than LHR would, so they would charge like a wounded rhinoceros if pressurized. N 1. A few years ago my organisation imported three Sikorsky S-92s into Brunei, in an AN124. We used the Royal Brunei Air Force hangar facilities to reassemble them - main rotor blades, two tail rotor blades each plus re-pressurise the undercarriage. Then a day or two of track and balance and we flew them down the coast to our operating base, 20 min away. How much more than this is involved with these 64s? 2. Stansted is a major air cargo hub (3rd largest in UK with plans to expand). One C-17 is hardly impacting the airline traffic. 3. One airframe cycle? Seriously? |
Don't forget the USMC transports sets of 3 helicopters around all the time assembling and then dis-assembling them frequently whenever the POTUS is visiting a particular country.
During the Clinton era, they brought in 3 x S61s in a C5 landing late morning at Farnborough and they were assembled and being test flown that evening. |
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