Tornados
 

Probably a few on here in this photo. Wonder if they are all "S"?
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....88c6693171.jpg

So where are all the groundcrew that made this happen & kept those steely eyed killers in the air, seems awfully unbalanced ?.

On rest days after doing all that overtime to get them 'S'.:oh:

Just curious; where, when, and - most important - why?

(Are they just stuck there, impotently immobile, on account of the ground crew are all in the nearest pub?)

Bet they're all pilots too...the Navs are probably sitting on an airfield miles away wondering where everyone is..

Good old Pprune.
 

It never fails to disappoint.

Even when someone posts an old photo, to satisfy the usual reminiscences, the first few comments bring complaints and whinges.

Maybe just say “wow, cool photo!”. If if you can’t bring yourself to say that maybe say nothing at all.

I think we all know the aircrew didn’t fix the jets and tow them out there themselves. I also think we know what you’re getting at with the ground crew comments. Could you imagine though trying to corral an extra 1000 engineers into the photo?

It doesn’t bear thinking about.

BV

Caption: Squadron of British Royal Air Force Tornado aircraft and crews seen at RAF Bruggen in Germany in March 1987.
Photographed by Terry Fincher - Copyright © The Fincher Files 2013
Doesn't say why!
https://thefincherfiles.photoshelter...000k4vBZtjHi2Y

I count 36 aircraft in the photo. Would that have been only one squadron? How many aircrew, and how many ground crew, would have been dedicated to that number of aircraft?

Tornados
 

Yes they required a relatively high maintenance man hours to keep them serviceable. Hardly surprising given when they were being designed and developed.
And of course, Tornado was easily the most advanced and complex fast jet of its age.
But at that time, MMH was not a big issue and in fact was not part of the certification requirements (unlike Typhoon).
The main requirement was mission capability. And in that they performed extremely well over the changing requirements during their life cycle.

Must be about three squadrons, surely? 45+ aircraft

I counted 35 aircraft so at twelve per squadron that would represent the four squadrons that Bruggen had. About one hundred heads on parade would be the aircrew.

For the historians and aero-modellers, the photo has been reversed.

RAF Bruggen Wing. 9 Sqn. 14 Sqn. 17 Sqn. 31 Sqn.

LOL that's the best one.

Obviously someone doesn't have a sense of humour ?

quote:
It never fails to disappoint.
Even when someone posts an old photo, to satisfy the usual reminiscences, the first few comments bring complaints and whinges.
Maybe just say “wow, cool photo!”. If if you can’t bring yourself to say that maybe say nothing at all.
I think we all know the aircrew didn’t fix the jets and tow them out there themselves. I also think we know what you’re getting at with the ground crew comments. Could you imagine though trying to corral an extra 1000 engineers into the photo?
It doesn’t bear thinking about.
unquote.

I thought a simple question having been at the sharp end sorting aircraft out many times for photo ops like this so the Rodney's could have their moments of glory, getting them there moderately easy, getting them away back home not always as easy, maybe the above author has not been up the front to achieve as shown ?

BVj

Zetec
 

For a start there would have been half as many aircrew if that picture would have been of my previous aircraft.

As for sense of humour, I guess it’s all subjective.

BV

PS. Since you asked I’m in this photo somewhere. Can’t remember which one.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4e3c3f70d.jpeg

There was one less a couple of weeks later. Sorry Boss!

According to a techie friend who was involved with that Bruggen photo, not only were the jets not all serviceable, there were some down the back that didn't even have a full complement of engines or panels!

As for the lack of groundcrew representation in group photos, as a junior pilot I was once tasked to corral the sqn aircrew for a photo and went to Rects Control to arrange a suitable backdrop. A smartarse corporal made the 'what about the techies who fix 'em then sir?' comment, probably expecting a chuckle from the chief; what he got was the chief pointing to the engineers' group photos behind Rects with a sharp "There's no aircrew who fly 'em in those, now bugger off". Couldn't have put it better!

Back in the days before BV was BV,we had lots of groundcrew, men who wore long shorts,or even short longs,to care for our war-weary windswept Whirlwind at the Far end of Empire........

In the original picture, the Station Commander was (IIRC) Group Captain (or possibly Air Commodore?) John Houghton.

Not long after that pic was published I was lucky enough to get an ATC camp place at RAF Bruggen in Jul 87 and the Staish attended our BBQ evening. Spent the week assisting 17 Sqn in recovering the Tonkas back into the HAS - exciting stuff for a 15 year old! One clear memory is the mainwheels of the Tonkas after landing seemed hotter than the sun!

Sycamore - I suspect that when your piccy was taken, the 'Tonkas' were still referred to as 'Multi Racial Cost Accumulaters' ;)

Sycamore, ok Brian where are you ?.

This is a great picture ! Any thoughts on when this might have been taken ?

Bruggen in Germany. I was a mile away in the bar. Sure the photo was taken on a Saturday.

Post #7 quite clearly states "March 1987". It often helps if you read a thread before asking questions? :p

You were number 4 in the picture. Daubs is out of shot. TC, Jim and Chris in front of you. I was on the hill the piccie was taken (Babs took it). Didn't you set off an LSJ that day as well?

Bruggen in the weeks before was an ice block.

Picture reversed
 

I thought something was odd - the picture is flipped. Boz 107 and Skyshadow on wrong stations. Sqn commanders in wrong order. I knew where I was standing and I've swapped wings. :-)

Interesting to note that they are using a picture of an RAF Tornado to promote next years Cosford airshow! I suppose there's just as much chance of one of them turning up as anything else in the current inventory!

CJ , it was still `Must refurbish Canberras again` time,and the Jag was still on some French notepaper....
Nav.mentioned below was JC of Chivenor fame.....

z2, TRY YOUR OTHER GLASSES...!
A tactical Squadron of 16 Fg/Offs, 3 Flt/lts( 1 Nav+1 QHI) and 1 Sqdn.ldr(Boss)...some on leave/r&r ,and 16 aircraft,even the Eng.O was an F/O....I think I had just been promoted to F/O recently....

`393` was a `gunship as well as it could carry 4x SS11 missiles,+2 Bren guns,+whatever you could carry in the cockpit....

Tornados are Whirlwinds ,but we could swing our wings right around.....

A bit more modern that using the airframe with my name on it.

I don’t post much and some of the comments here are probably part of the reason.
The photo, or a copy of it, hangs in my study as I’m in it and it is a Wing Photo of part of the RAFG Strike/Attack capability in 1987. The rest were the sqns at Larbruch and Gutersloh, as well all the U.K. based sqns of Buccs, Harriers, Jaguars and the AD sqns.
It”s the Bruggen Wing, correctly identified as IX, 14, 17 and 31 Sqns. There are 48 aircraft in the picture, 12 from each Sqn and they were towed there by very proud and conscientious ground crew not wingers who weren’t in it. At the time we were in the frontline of the Cold War and although cold in terms of bullets flying around we took it extremely seriously and as a result of our dedication and, for some, great sacrifices, we won, only to hand the World over to the people who created the current balls up. Some of those photographed didn’t return from what happened 4 years later and we remember them
Take the p..s all you like, just make sure that if it’s ever your turn you are up for it.

ECAT was on the french notepaper whe we were still waiting for a TSR2 prototype to take off. I do question the remit of using spitfires to fight JSFs that a lot of threads seem to go. I have been out of the military for 11 years so certainly are not in touch with what is the truth.

Well said Sir.

As one of the many ground crew who were responsible for preparing and towing the 9 Sqn aircraft into position, I can say that I echo that sentiment. It was a fantastic achievement and one I feel happy to have been a part of. What a great picture!

Don't forget the war dodgers of 431 MU. We had to face the threat of PIRA like everyone else. And I will reinforce your point that this lot 4 years down the line were doing Hot Ops with hard work by aircrew and ground crew alike. Proper Ops with low level and the opposition that threw everything they had back. A lot of the old age pensioners on here have never had a SCUD or IDF come near them or heard one. Or seen fireworks come their way. Granby and Telic medals I wear.

Sycamore - we 'Fling-wing' chaps shouldn't be intruding on 'swing-wing' territory but your mention of JC reminds me that I had to amend an appallingly inaccurate, - in fact, libellous version of JC and his fatal, which appeared in Wikipaedia. I don't know who the original author was, but to have published such a travesty is beyond belief. That really was something to get worked up about!

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1e95f4808f.jpg
One of the smaller holes in ZD483, The piece of metal that caused this missed the navigator by inches. The rest of the airframe was pebbledashed badly. Not as bad as its pair ZA403 that had to be abandonned and the crew face the brutality of Sadam. I repaired this hole BTW to get 843 back in the game. Sorry, do its job. I do not talk to all the servicemen that fly and fix. There is banter, but there are people that have not been in the game for a long time and never under the pressures that having hard metal being thrown at them. There are the other interlopers that are not military.. Wrong forum to inject gents.

I recall the photo, I believe it appeared in a Sunday Broadsheet, I had just arrived at Gatow. I believe the aim was to reflect on what was the then new face of the RAF, Bruggen and Laarbruch had just finished re-equipping with Tornado GR1s, four squadrons a piece and an establishment of 48 aircraft a piece. This would be the entire RAF frontline fast jet fleet today. Lightnings and Canberras were still operational then and Hunters were still on the active inventory, imbedded on Training Flights with the Buccaneer units. As the oft used refrain goes, that's when we had an air force!

FB

In that era, the Crew:Aircraft ratio was maintained at the NATO ACE Forces Standards "Excellent" level of 2:1 - so 24 pilots + 24 navs per 12-aircraft sqn - including all the execs.

The established groundcrew strength per 12-aircraft sqn + 3 x SE Fitt (that belonged to Arm Eng Flt) + 3 x Gen Techs (that belonged to Gen Eng Flt) was around 135.

In addition, there was an Army major Ground Liaison Officer (GLO) + Army GLO driver / clerk (l/cpl) + Sqn Admin Off / SQINTO + 3 x PANDA clerks + 3 x AATC (cpl/SAC).