Sentinel R1 to be scrapped next year due to ‘obsolescence’ say MoD
 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/sent...cence-say-mod/

P-8 Poseidon probably replaces it

https://rusi.org/publication/rusi-de...-p-8a-poseidon

cheers

I think the word ‘probably’ would more accurately be replaceable with ‘could possibly’. Subject to the US allowing the UK into another highly classified technical capability (not helped by the Hauawii deal) and another chunk of money that defence would have to find in the current climate. My guess is that it’s very unlikely although quite a decent RUSI article anyway.

How many stays of execution has it had already? One, two or is it three?

Was that money well spent or not ?

I found this quite amusing only three scant years ago

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...l-radar-planes

Isn't that the kind of mission that would gradually migrate to UAV? Triton anyone?

"Smart Procurement" was the latest snappy catch phrase in use as I was departing Bristol's premier centre of excellence for pissing away tax-payers money. Obviously that never caught on.

Could RAF eke some value from the aircraft by removing the electronics and converting them back to a passenger/transport role, maybe replacing some of 32 Sqn's 146s? Or will all the extra bits bolted on have compromised fatigue life too much?

Boeing's lobbyists would probably create significant pressure to excuse any such issues since it gives them an opportunity to ship something which won't spend years in adjacent parking lots, and it would at least have some commonality with the existing P-8 MPAs. And as for the money, with COVID bloating borrowing all over the world, what better time to splash a little more red ink?

Indeed. I recall us being dragged into the main lecture theatre to hear a talk by the 3 Star Deputy CE and hangers-on about 'faster, cheaper, better' and how they were going to develop a way of achieving it. He set out all the things they were looking at, claiming most were 'hard targets' and there was no realistic way of achieving them quickly, so concentrate on a few 'quick wins' to begin with.

It was pointed out to him that his hard targets were routinely met with minimal fuss if one simply implemented a mandated Def Stan. And if he cared to study the major projects that were successful, he'd see a correlation. And on the disasters, like Nimrod and Chinook Mk3, he wouldn't. He turned his back and walked away.

RIP-ASTOR
 

HAS59,

The role of Wedgetail is completely and totally different from the role of Sentinel. You might as well say we will be better of with Grob Tutors!


And for all those pushing the P-8A as an alternative to Sentinel, the RAF have already formally declared that this will not happen as there are nowhere near enough of them and they will be 100% focussed on the Maritime role.

So we will withdraw the capability unreplaced and suffer yet another Tory capability "window" or gap.

Tuc, I recall a similar "town hall" meeting led by your favourite CDP, where he stated that he saw no place for technical staff in his department. That sort of expertise could all be hired in. That worked well, didn't it?
Still, glad all that's behind me.
Hope you are keeping well.

Ahh Sentinel - the first and only RAF aircraft to be fitted with but not for.

On capability gaps, the MQ-9 Reaper and the MQ-9B Protector can offer both Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and Ground Moving Target Indication (GMTI) with its Lynx multimode radar. Here is some info: https://www.ga-asi.com/lynx-multi-mode-radar

Now the Lynx is not as powerful as the Sentinel’s radar, but there are many more Protectors on order than we have Sentinels - so in this case quantity gives a quality better than before. Further the fidelity of the data from Protector is superior as it is closer to the area being surveilled. It can also deliver product beyond line of sight - indeed from anywhere on the planet with the right satellite coverage and bandwidth (which there is).


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....66190f0b6.jpeg
So the RAF retains a SAR/GMTI capability with the 20+ Protectors on order. So all is not lost when it comes to capability - the Reapers already being flown offer that capability now, but in smaller numbers. :ok:

Seems like they've found a hanagar for the Reds!

Thank you. Despite an apparent shift in Government policy this week, I have refrained from exposing myself to the locals.

Yes, I think that was 1997. Having uprooted everyone to the dreaded AbbeyWood, he announced 600 engineering jobs would go. A few years later an old colleague complained to me that he'd inherited an Integrated Project Team where 70% of the staff were costing him around £3k a day each via an agency.

On this Sentinel issue, and to be fair, the policy was (is?) that one cannot proceed unless there is assurance that the kit can be supported for 15 years. The problem is, that clock can start running 10 years before ISD, especially on avionics.

The other issue is 'five years useful life'. The piecemeal way in which Sentinel seems to have been extended for a year or two at a time militates against receiving any proper funding, as it reduces in each of the last five years of life anyway. If you slip the OSD a year, that just means you have six years of reduced funding, not five. Such a practice is, in effect, planned obsolesecence; as well as a stealth cut in the defence budget.

'So we will withdraw the capability unreplaced and suffer yet another Tory capability "window" or gap.'

Odd comment, at least in recent history. Having worked in Cap at the fag end of Brown's awful regime, I can attest to the utter lack of reality that Labour apparatchiks (and simpering politically-friendly CS) worked in. Kit was ordered for red-top headlines with absolutely no rational plan for how it was to be funded, procured and supported (I was working on the proposed new buy of 24 CH-47s at the time). We accepted that, whoever won the 2010 GE, much of what we were doing would be undone. It was simply not affordable. Most on the second floor were looking at it each other wondering who, if anybody, senior enough had the minerals to tell the Govt that it was, effectively, a naked emperor. Brown's bunker mentality refused engagement in the real world. He happily eschewed Austerity post the crash and continued Defence Largesse in the vain hope he'd scrape through the looming election (especially trying to buttress Scotland against the SNP). His decision to not invoke austerity, and to keep spending, between 2008-10 made the subsequent austerity (and associated SDSR10) much worse. The 'Tory capability holidays' in SDSR 10 were as a direct result of the dire state of the national finances and the fantasy which was the Defence EP at the time. It's not all the politicos fault, of course. The Service chiefs happily took lumps out of each other to preserve turf, funding, prestige and sacred cows……SDR15 looked at the progress made and then started to 'buy back' capabilities that had been 'snoozed' as affordability improved. Sentinel has always been on borrowed time. There are significant long terms savings to remove a type from the inventory, and the potential savings of P8/E7 commonality will help significantly, especially if a modest additional buy of P8s (4-6) were sanctioned (the serial numbers are allotted) and it would ease the RAF's concerns regarding over-stretching the force. Additionally, Protector will help, as will a new generation of Air Launched Effectors and other UAV tech, the potential of which is probably being studied by the likes of 216 Sqn….Just my 2p. Hopefully the boys and girls on V (AC) will continue to dig out until OSD.

Shame you can only have Aircrew on board that drink G&Ts with slimline tonic and discard their top bun when eating a burger...

SAR-MTI + EO/IT Cross-cueing!
 

Thanks, pr00ne, I realise that the roles of Wedgetail are indeed different to the role of Sentinel.
When I said we’d be better off with Wedgetail, that’s what I meant. It’s a better use of money and people.
The ELINT capability it will provide is a decent target cueing facility, especially when used alongside other assets.

The experience gained on Sentinel will be useful to the operators of the General Atomics Lynx radar on the Protector RPV’s.
I am grateful to Lima Juliet for mentioning, indeed demonstrating, the SAR-MTI capability of the Protector,
I wasn’t sure how much of this information is already ‘out there.’

The one- foot resolution SAR image is simply astonishing,
and with the ability to cross-cue an EO/IR sensor it surpasses everything that Sentinel tried to achieve.