Cap badge identification request.
 

Hello Chaps.

I wondered if anyone could shed some light on this cap and it's badge. Found in my recently deceased Great Uncle John's attic. He was a Merchant Sailor in his time as well as many other things later on...and was much loved by all. Indeed, at his funeral there were men from all over the World.
I found this cap, a few weeks later, in a sea chest, amongst his belongings that we had to sort through.
Apart from that; little is known...

Here is the pic...
Grateful thanks in advance for any information.
Auxtank.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3872a239a3.jpg

And another of the interior...

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8c591ce283.jpg

I'd say a captain in the British Merchant Navy.

I agree with Blossy looks like British Merchant Navy

FWIW
Miller Rayner list a similar cap badge on their site here:
Cap Badge - Miller Rayner Limited#

and a cap with very similar laurel leaf peak decoration here:
caps

I'd go along with that. Been looking at the modern manufactured ones which are rubbish compared with that one, rather like the current issued RAF officers' SD caps

I recall a Shipping Company called The Anchor Line

You might trace him, and hence the companies in which he was a ships officer, from this site:-

Officers in the Merchant Navy - The National Archives

Thanks to one and all for all the info. British Merchant Navy Officer fits with what we know of Uncle John.
It is a beautifully made cap.

The full crown draped over the ears reminds me of my Bates cap that I bought at South Cerney in 1960. The wimps at MOD banned them a decade later.

If only it could talk...

When I joined up in 1983, Snaiths at RAFC were selling Bates' hats. And I bought a brand new Bates for my wedding in 1991, and I still wear it to this day for No 1 events. I particularly liked the way it folded down at the sides towards my ears!

Thats a Masters cap with a standard MN badge.Company badges had House Flags as the centre piece.The most ornate one I ever had was a Trinity House cap badge.
The first one I ever had was a NZSCo.badge which had crossed NZSCo/Federal line flags as a centre piece.I joined as an Apprentice in 1959.
Colin.

I occasionally had shipping line cap badges through my hands when I was dealing. Very hard to get hold of and always made good money. The standard MN badge was quite common, as you might imagine. I have about 80 odd different shipping line buttons - most representing lines which have long gone. Almost all of excellent quality, and normally gilded to resist salt water corrosion. Incidentally KING6024 I have both Trinity House and NZSCco buttons

The only badge I now have is a British&Irish Steam Packet Co.badge,otherwise known as the B+I Line.Its a little weathered.My last long term seafaring job before working ashore.I've still got a Bridge Coat and uniform somewhere so must have the buttons.

Colin

I may have a "Shipping Company Cap Badge" in that it was that of Dan-Air. The airline was started by the shipping company Davies and Newman formed in 1922, being a member of the Baltic Exchange. Whereas the airline logo was the "Compass Rose" one (with or without the cardinal points labelled NEWS) and a red and white striped fish tailed pennant behind, flight deck cap badges had the pennant alone. It is neither the D or N signal flags, so I've never known its significance. Anyone?

I think king's crown badges and buttons were still in common use well into the 1950s, and were only replaced as and when necessary. At Gaydon in 1969 (2ANS) the station commander still wore his WW2 Observer's brevet.*

* Yes ok, flying badge for the purist!

When I joined BRNC Dartmouth in September 1973 we were issued with RN battledress with king's buttons.

I joined G.B. Aiurways in 1994. The cap badge was that of the Bland Shipping Company, and the wings had the same emblem in the middle.

:p

They were the one's we rejected in 1967 :D

As I recall, the RAF went over to staybrite buttons around 1968, certainly I wore brass buttons for my first few years of service from 1964. What always puzzled me when I was dealing in militaria was that king's crown anodised buttons used to turn up quite frequently, even though as far as I know these were never worn in service. Any ideas?

I'd like to meet the bugger who carefully removed the badge from my SD cap when it was hanging on its usual peg in the mess at Kai Tak. After donning my cap I strolled down to the office where I was met by my doughty RAF Regiment sergeant

"Excuse me sir, but did you check in the mirror before leaving the mess this morning?" :eek:

Tankertrashnav wrote: We were still polishing brass buttons and picking the duraglit cack out of the crowns in 1969 at RAFC. Then came 'low dome' staybrite buttons, but they were soon replaced by the current 'high dome' version.

Duraglit?????????????

We Direct Entry scruffs used Brasso.!!!

Clearing out the holes in the belt buckles with a pipe cleaner kept us busy.

Clearing out the holes in the belt buckles with a pipe cleaner kept us busy.

We were assured that it was all 'character building'!

Not sure about the switch from KGVI to QE2 but around mid 60s we all had to change buttons on No1s and Great Coats to high dome. The problem was No1 button holes had been sized for the earlier slimmer button. There was no question of not changing it was a direct order.

I remember many aircrew with WW2 medals. They all sported QE2 crowns.

The crown used to "top" the cap badge which began this thread was known as the "Naval crown" or sometimes the Tudor Naval crown. It featured alternating prows and sterns of wooden sailing ships, and there seem to have been several versions. It was often used on ship's badges I believe (including RN?). There was (very much later) an aviation crown (I seem to recall it MAY have been described as the "Adastral Crown" or something similar), which features birds wings instead of the ship decorations. This is still used for semi-governmental organisations, and I notice it is also used for the badge of the RNZAF Museum (under governorship of a Trust Board), so perhaps also the RAF Museum? Quite hard to find out about these lesser known crowns, particularly if you do not know what they are called. And these days, just to make it even more difficult, they are not "Royal" in any sense. Sovereigns never wore them, so far as I know, and they possibly never even exited as actual objects, being purely symbolic crowns. Any further enlightenment from the more knowledgeable who infest this forum welcomed!

dd310, your post and indeed this thread is a classic example of the power of pprune. I am now the wiser thanks to you (and as ever to Google!). The aviation crown you mention is not the Adastral but the Astral Crown (Google politely asking if I meant the latter, of course I did!).

Not only is there a Naval Crown and an Astral Crown, the Army has its own too, the Camp Crown!

You boy, did I hear tittering?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_crown