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Trust you? No idea why I should do that. Remember, if you’re not up against a representative war plane then no one’s training. You can get plenty of training out of a Red Air sortie. If your people are leaving then you’re losing experience and capability. The fact that they’re leaving to fly for contractors when they might not have left if given a second line tour at the correct point is an issue. |
You’ve no reason to trust me. No you can’t get training out of flying Red Air other than airborne time itself which would be better served flying as Blue. You simply can’t get the required ‘ticks’ when flying Red Air. That’s not open for debate. People are leaving, that’s the point, and of those people leaving they have been asking for follow on tours on the FL and are not getting them for various reasons; entirely valid reasons for the majority. |
Originally Posted by Foghorn Leghorn
(Post 10452168)
You’ve no reason to trust me. No you can’t get training out of flying Red Air other than airborne time itself which would be better served flying as Blue. You simply can’t get the required ‘ticks’ when flying Red Air. That’s not open for debate. People are leaving, that’s the point, and of those people leaving they have been asking for follow on tours on the FL and are not getting them for various reasons; entirely valid reasons for the majority.
Originally Posted by Foghorn Leghorn
(Post 10452094)
Trust me, it’s wasted having people sat doing FJ Red Air; you simply cannot get the training required. If your metric is hours flown then sure. If your metric is capability, then it’s a waste. As I’ve already said, there is a constant stream of talented FJ pilots leaving anyway so they would be ideal candidates for contract Red Air. The point that you don’t get “ticks” merely serves to highlight some of the problems within a system that is that it driven by quantitative stats rather than qualitative assessment. Flying Red also gives the opportunity for people to try things they wouldn’t normally do as blue which if flown correctly can increase their individual ability. regardless if I have a choice up between a squadron that I have a role in having to fly a modest percentage of red air or getting an extra Cobham or some contractor job radar non EW ex trainer I know what I want. Guess what - It’s not the 0.8M hawk with no SA or 0.6M 20kft falcon. lastly what percentage of people leaving want to step to Cobham over Middle East training / an airline job / somewhere like inzpire / city consultancy? I wouldn’t be relying on that to solve the brain drain. |
Originally Posted by flighthappens
(Post 10452223)
Red air is only a waste of a time if people are not thinking correctly. At present the threat has very similar capabilities to the 4th Gen Blue - mimicking red is certainly not “invalid”. There are plenty of core skills that can be practiced. The point that you don’t get “ticks” merely serves to highlight some of the problems within a system that is that it driven by quantitative stats rather than qualitative assessment. Flying Red also gives the opportunity for people to try things they wouldn’t normally do as blue which if flown correctly can increase their individual ability. regardless if I have a choice up between a squadron that I have a role in having to fly a modest percentage of red air or getting an extra Cobham or some contractor job radar non EW ex trainer I know what I want. Guess what - It’s not the 0.8M hawk with no SA or 0.6M 20kft falcon. lastly what percentage of people leaving want to step to Cobham over Middle East training / an airline job / somewhere like inzpire / city consultancy? I wouldn’t be relying on that to solve the brain drain. I absolutely agree about your assessment of a quantitative vs qualitative system. Unfortunately, in my view, the hierarchy are seduced by number of hours flown vice quality of hours flown. The ASDOT contract would have unlocked the door to more representative Red Air threats and not the Falcon or Hawk that you speak of. Finally, neither you nor I are able to tell with certainty what percentage of pilots would switch to a contract Red Air company to fly fast jets rather than the options you listed. Anecdotally though, it’s a high percentage. |
SAAB might have some spare fighters looking for a use...
Fourteen white tail Saab GripensA small scandal is emerging within the Swedish Defence Industry. It was reported this week in the Svenska Dagbladet that the Försvarets MaterielVerk (FMV, Swedish Defence Material Adminsitration) had ordered fourteen more Gripen hulls with Saab AB just in order to keep the production line open. According to the given information ten of these hulls are JAS39C models and four JAS39D models.The Swedish Government agreed to this policy and were hopeful that the aircraft could have been exported to overseas customers, but an order never came in. Several, mainly eastern European countries, were approached in the past, like Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia, hoping those would buy the Saab JAS39C/D Gripen. But to no avail.The white tails, although "only" empty hulls, have cost the Swedish taxpayer a lot of money. FMV does not want to say the amount of money involved, but claims that these hulls have been budgeted for in the Gripen E contract. https://www.facebook.com/Scramblemagazine/posts/2748254551867728 |
Originally Posted by Davef68
(Post 10452243)
SAAB might have some spare fighters looking for a use...
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