Clare Baldwin: Navy should help more as they are not doing much actual warfare
 

From today on Jeremy Vine:

She said, referring to the illegal immigrant situation in the channel. Because, of course, our armed forces aren't committed to any security issues right now seeing as there is not much actual warfare occuring. These media people have got absolutely no idea.

A couple of broadsides with the old fifteen inches; that'll stop them.

Too True!

Where did they get the idea the UK still has a Navy?

I'm sure that a few of those matelots with nothing to do, would really like to exchange their pitching and rolling, arctic cruise for the odd jolly out of Brighton to luvvy illegal immigrants trying to break down the door.

Or perhaps Ms Balding might like to take a lower deck cruise in one HM's old war canoes for a couple of months down the Gulf in July. :E

IG

Do you mean Clare Baldwin, special correspondent for Reuters and Pulitzer Prize winner, or do you mean Clare Balding, general broadcaster with a penchant for all things horses?

Out of interest, what "actual warfare" (your words) is the Royal Navy currently involved in?

Yes Clare Balding. My mistake.

Does the UK not have the equivalent of a Coast Guard? In the US, the Coast Guard has the law enforcement mission (including human smuggling/immigration) and USN is forbidden to get directly involved.

The US Coast Guard is a military service, but not part of the Department of Defense. Coast Guard was originally part of the Department of Commerce, but recently was moved to Department of Homeland Security, which is a law enforcement agency. This is an important distinction under our Constitution. DoD assets may not be used for law enforcement duties. However, in times of war, the US Coast Guard can become part of the US Navy.
USCG does maritime law enforcement (fisheries laws, smuggling laws, maritime environmental protection laws, etc etc), operates and maintains waterways navaids (such as light houses, buoys, etc), and is responsible for maritime search and rescue. Apparently all those maritime law enforcement duties in the UK fall to the Royal Navy?

I believe the First Sea Lord flies his flag from HMS Victory.Perhaps it could be refloated ?

I understand that offshore enforcement is split between the Navy, the Border Forces and the police. Naviads are the dept transport, rescue is the lifeboat charity plus the raf and any relevant military resource

Given the numbers that are actually coming over, there's no reason they couldn't get the RNLI to do it.

HM Coast Guard
 

They tend to be land based with Coast Guard stations and are responsible for the Maritime Search and Rescue, particularly with helicopters. The Royal National Lifeboat Institution has lifeboats and works with HMCG for rescue; they are not Government funded.

The nearer equivalent to the USCG is Border Force with a number of cutters two of which are in the Mediterranean.

RN Fishery Protection Squadron: Provides fishery enforcement in English, Welsh, and NI water, and occasionally Scottish. Does national tasking such as shadowing Russian or Chinese warships of other vessels of interests. Can be used for Military Aid to Government Departments of Military Aid to The Civil Power - as can other RN ships. MAGD/MACP can include counter narcotics, counter terrorism, SAR, anti pollution, and so on.

Marine Scotland: Performs fishery protection in Scottish waters.

Border Force: Has five cutters used for anti illegal immigration and counter drug tasks. Two are returning to the UK from Med.

Police: Virtually every UK Police force has an area of coast, and have small patrol vessels, RIBs, and can patrol/board. The Ministry of Defence Police has full constabulary powers throughout the UK, and a large fleet of launches, mostly in the naval ports.

HM Coastguard: Coordinates Search and Rescue from shore stations, provides cliff/beach rescue teams and provides SAR helicopters via contract. Also provides marine salvage and towing via a contractor.

RNLI: Provides lifeboats through the UK and Ireland, manned by volunteers.

Trinity House: Responsible for light houses, light ships, and navigation bouys in English, Welsh, and NI waters.

Northern Lighthouse Board: Does the same in the Scottish and Isle of Man coasts.

Wait until you see the whites of their eyes Pike...

Which means they are not currently being paid.....

Neither the RNLI or Coast Guard helicopters should be used when dealing with immigrants.
I know from personal experience that "refugees" can be aggressive, have mental issues or are physically ill and have zero respect for female Police Officers.
It shouldn't be the responsibility of unpaid RNLI crews and civilian helicopter crews to undertake work which should be done by Border Force and the Police.
Unfortunately the UK has no alternative but to use the RNLI, Coast Guard helicopters and Royal Navy vessels because Border Force don't have enough vessels and because they are Civil Servants with the Civil Service menality are a poor substitute for Police Officers or a body similiar to the US Coast Guard.

Ok, I'll bite on this one! Re behaviours that might be experienced with 'refugees' - agreed, but so were some of the people we assisted when I used to be a lifeboat crewman way, way back. Not many, but it happened. Usually in the summer and when drink or other psychotropic substances had been consumed.

I did not mention Council Housing and am not of the "let them drown - machine gun them" view that sadly is expressed. I was merely trying to answer KenV's question about responsibility for SAR, maritime safety, maritime law enforcement, etc.

Don't the RN still have a dozen or so patrol vessels at University Royal Naval Units? Perhaps a meaningful deployment for them?

The URNUs have a total allocation of 14 Archer class fast patrol boats, which form No.1 Patrol Boat Squadron.

They look rather fun - and the URNUs remain something of a secret compared to the OTC and UAS. Little flying at a UAS these days and eating mud in the OTC probably has a limited appeal. Whereas wazzing about in 54 ton patrol boats....

If the so called refugees are in such dire straits as you imply, why did they not seek asylum in the first safe country iaw the Dublin Accord?

I have a lot of sympathy for genuine refugees and wouldn't want anyone to die while crossing the channel whatever their circumstances and I take offence at the "Council House" remark as I am not that person.
It iis still doesn't make it acceptable for the authorities knowingly putting volunteers and civilians in danger because enforcement agencies have no resourses

racingrigger,

The VAST majority of them do.

hunterboy,

Fair enough, I see what you are getting at and can't really disagree.

You may be right that the vast majority seek asylum elsewhere, but according to my paper there are approx another 3,000 asylum seekers scattered around northern France waiting to try their luck.

I would have thought the poor wretches trying to get to the UK would be best advised to stay put in France! Haven't they heard of Brexit and what's going to happen to us!
FB

As with all things in life, THEY HAVE A CHOICE.
Fleeing from France is not putting ones life in ones hands because they are being persecuted and thus they are then endangering others lives who have to try to rescue them,.

Its the bloody doogooders that were picking them up a mile or so off the coast of the likes of Libya then transporting them to Italy etc and doing the people smugglers work for them I blame.
I would have returned them straight to Libya, all that does is encourage people to attempt in even less seaworthy boats as they know they only have to reach a couple of miles out.

You don't pay these guys thousands to get dumped back at square one and then it will not take long for it to start to get around that you are wasting your cash.


..

Absolutely bang-on.
It is amazing that such an obvious truth is seemingly beyond our leaders.
Truly amazing.

Well said Nutloose. And currently many of them are not fleeing persecution they are economic migrants. If claiming asylum they should be dealt with in the first "free" country they reach, not to be encouraged to seek the yellow brick road in UK

Finally sense is prevailing and they agree with me :ooh::cool:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...eal/ar-BBSHvkH