Oh yes we aren't.

I haven't read this thread and haven't found it rather amusing.

Oh no we is!

Is that the morning star lying there..

Welcome to the Englandshire summer...in the background "are those real guns mista"

I think that must rate as one of the most arrogant, up yer own ass pig ignorant posts I've ever seen here, and that's saying something.

I gather there's some childish/spotterish silliness going on as with any closed-shop in-joke that no one will explain to a genuine inquiry but that being so it evidently doesn't warrant an explanation.
Just as I hadn't realised a profile was expected to include qualifications that qualify one to recieve answers from self aggrandised saddos like you, chevron.
It's clearly too infantile to be worth explaining.
I'd expected more of this forum.

In this context, "If you don't know then you don't 'need' to know" is surely a parody of the bar room scene from Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels when Barry 'The Baptist' is briefing the two 'f****** Northern Monkeys' about the forthcoming robbery:

meleagertoo-for many years there have been certain aircraft types, involved in certain roles, where its much better if they were left quietly to get on with their own business, without the need for their locations to be publicised, or acknowledged. Mainly because their roles were largely of a highly sensitive nature-their positioning, or knowledge thereof, would be an advantage to an adversary.

Hence the 'I didn't see this at X, Y and Z' type posts you are seeing.

Deuced bad form, a caddish trick to thus annoy a fellow.
Take a demerit.

Is there anybody with even a passing aviation interest in Cyprus who doesn't know that the U-2 has regularly operated from there for decades?

There have been multiple threads on here that mention it, for one thing.

Claiming "Need to Know" is rather precious - especially from the topic starter!

Like the 'truth 'I suspect he 'can't handle the truth'.

There's a guy on Flyer Forums with a similar attitude; wonder if it's the same person?

C'mon guys, cool it. I was one of the first to start this, back on post 10. Those in on the joke know, but let's not be critical of those who don't. It was an aircraft that was carrying out certain sensitive missions over sensitive territory, and the less we "ordinary people" knew of it's activities the better. Hence the "I didn't see it" idea arose. Just a jokey way of acknowledging it's existence, without asking questions of people who were not allowed to answer.

---------------

If I might be permitted an attempt at clarification, and maybe prevent any further unnecessary escalation.

As this is the military aviation forum, it is inevitable that some topics under discussion will encroach on matters which are subject to varying levels of military security classification (i.e. "secrecy").

Obviously all service personnel (both serving and former), having signed the Official Secrets Act, will not want to discuss topics on this public forum, which are still covered by current security classifications. However, occasionally a "reality clash" is encountered, where the security classification officially decreed for a particular activity, seems to be completely at odds with the realities of the situation.

As an example... how do you keep the presence of one of the noisiest, smokiest, aircraft in the world as a "secret"...?
Hence the occasional use in these threads, of "veiled" speech... or in the case of this particular thread, a repeated alluding to the hilarious pretence that the "secret" is somehow still a secret. Hence also, the equally hilarious tales of the ludicrous extents to which some senior personnel (many of whom were old enough and hairy enough to have known better), persisted in trying to deny the undeniable... rather than perhaps devoting their intellectual energies to finding and implementing more plausible and durable cover stories.

As for profiles, I would suggest that what you do with your profile is entirely up to you. Some people just can't wait to publish all their details accompanied by flashing lights [usually former Lightning pilots...! ;-) ]...
... others have done things that they have the humility not to brag about...
... others still wish to keep everybody guessing...
... others yet dream of aspiring to the very pinnacle of elite aircraft spotting...
... while there are those who decline to put most details in any form of online social media, as they wisely assess that sooner or later some malevolent web-trawling bot will use some of it against them.

In my humble opinion, I doubt very much whether any real arrogance has been deployed here. Being a forum frequented by many who are well-versed in military discipline, I am therefore sure that chevvron is more than capable of being witheringly arrogant / offensive, etc., if he/she ever chose to adopt such a stance... so the comparatively mild banter (particularly if you already understand the joke), which was levelled in response to your query, hardly qualifies as this. Starting, encouraging, and perpetuating banter is an important element of "Maintenance of Morale"... which is something that I would advocate becoming (and remaining forever) as second nature to all military leaders (at any level)... and even when taking into account "modern" sensitivities. (I have always counselled the "particularly sensitive", that they should perhaps reserve their full steaming outrage instead, for deploying against those that are actually firing live rounds at them... or worse.)

So, with respect, I would maybe urge caution against leaping too quickly into "defensive" mode and hurling around comments like "saddos" etc., ... otherwise many other people might inevitably form their own (but hopefully incorrect) adverse conclusions about your solidity of character. (Quiet, self-deprecating humour has been known to earn respect in the past... if a suitably witty, more brash riposte is not immediately to hand.)

What a brilliant post .. explaining precisely why some things are couched in slang, jargon or whatever. I only served for a few years and never did anything brave or famous but still got to see and hear quite a few things. Some of which will NEVER appear on this forum while others will, if couched only in terms of 'weather balloons' or whatever. Other more 'mundane' stuff is fair game.for a discussion and a bit of banter.

As it's Panto season:

You didn't see it because I told you to turn round so "IT'S BEHIND YOU"

The joke was that everyone was very well aware of the a/c being there and of the Ops name (OH), just we were forbidden from publicly linking the two.

A facade only slightly undermined by the Yanks then flogging T-Shirts for their beer swindle..... complete with a dirty great outline of a weather balloon that happened to look like a U-2. With the text 'Olive Harvest writ large beneath it !

You couldn't have made it up.

True.

CS

A little off-track from a different part of the world, but still a comment on "security". scene is Pt. Moresby about 67 or 68 - my memory is going. Rumour that something is happening at the strip got a few of us out in time to see a KC135 appear. As soon as it stopped moving a guy leapt out with a handheld, yelling for a vehicle. Quite exciting as a U2 appeared and was talked down. Once he was parked by the tower everyone was very relaxed. The ground crew kept the cockpit closed, and we didn't get to chat to the driver, but otherwise we found out he was enroute Guam to East Sale, from where they were flying air sampling missions over Antartica. He apparently had a warning light, and Moresby was the nearest possible diversion. Don't know what his posittion on the 2800 nm. trip from Guam would have been, but there weren't too many 10,000 ft. strips available, and they apparently viewed Moresby as marginaly acceptable. So he had loitered for some unspecified time at some unspecified altitude while the KC 135 caught up.

The funny bit was that after about an hour of close inspection and chat by all and sundry, a police detachment arrived, with orders telexed from Canberra, to establish a perimeter of x 100yds around a non-existent a/c that no-one had seen.

I missed his departure next morning, but he apparently left the control zone out the top before passing the the end of the runway.

Not as good a "not there " as told by a friend who was Air America in the 60's. Question to refueller at a non-existent strip, "Whose are those six unmarked C130's ?". "I don't see no 130's".

Long time ago.

Well at least we now know what U2 pilots wear under their pressure suits...pink trainers! :p

I enjoyed watching Bono take off on departures day at RIAT in 2017.....

This thread neatly encapsulates the farcical nonsense of most British military security, focussing far more on keeping information from it's own members and the general public that is widely known by, and in some cases officially telegraphed to, the 'opposition'....

You mean like an Army mate who lives close to the extended runway line of Fairford and hasn't seem any of these mystery aircraft over the last 5 years and which certainly weren't in transit from Cyprus to the USA and vv every month or so................

Asturias56,

You mean those frequent movements that are pre alerted by public NOTAM and photographed and shared in fine detail and almost real time on dozens of spotter and modeller sites?

Several years ago I was down at MPA yet again protecting the Bennies from the threat of invasion :rolleyes: . Predictably our VC10K was declared as a 'war goer' whilst waiting for some spares to be flown down by TriStar. One fine day the hooter went and we were called to readiness. After the F-3s launched, our trusty Landrover valiantly struggled against the headwind as we set off to the jet, before we climbed aboard and declared on-state, war goer.

Listening to the R/T was much fun. Q1 and 2 soon closed on the contact and an excited SOC controller started asking questions: "Are there any markings?" "Yes, mate - it says 'Aerolineas Argentinas' on the side!". Shortly afterwards Q was hauled off and we all reverted to RS boredom.

This was in the very early days of the Internet and with only very slow dial-up connections from our side of the aerodrome. Nevertheless, I had a thought and asked one of the Herk mates, who was a bit of an Internet whizz, "Hey - see if you can find something like aerolineas argentinas dot com and look for some timetables". Mate disappeared into the boss's office and after about 10 min of clicking and muttering, he suddenly yelled "Found it!". So we downloaded the day's schedules, printed them out and faxed them down to the Tic-TOC with our compliments...

About 5 seconds later, the phone rang. It was some Intell weeny - "Where did you find this high value intelligence? We've been trying to get hold of their schedules for weeks. This is all highly classified and shouldn't have been sent by insecure fax!"....:\

That well-known oxymoron - military intelligence!

We inherited that from you lot it seems.

One Sunday morning in the Philippines as I was sat in my skivvies enjoying a late breakfast after a much later evening the night before....yet to shower/shave etc.....the Talking Bone begins to ring.

I picked it up...and it was my Navy OC on the other end.

As was the Duty Agent for the Day...with every expectation of not getting a call out of any kind....the fact it was the OC himself and not the Base Police calling....I got a bit of a surprise.

Him...."Special Agent Sasless....you are the Duty Agent for the Subic Navy Base today....right?"

Me....Yessir....how can I help you?

Him...."I need you to do a Protective Services Detail thingy today!" (Body Guard Detail)

Me....Errrr.....ahhhhh....uhhhhhhh.....PSD...today?

Him...."Yes...today!"

Me....Who is it for?

Him....."This is not a secure line....I cannot tell you."

Me....(never mind what I was thinking about the rumors that the OC was an Idiot) Errr....Skipper....can you give me just a small hint so I know who to look for?"

Him....Lots of stuttering....finally he says......"Philippine 6 Alpha".

Me....Doing some quick thinking....realizes he is talking about the Wife of the Philippine President at the time....Imelda Marcos.

Me...Skipper when is the Principle (Marcos) going to arrive?

Him...."In one hour at Cubi Point Naval Air Station."

Me...(Now in what can only be described as a "Holy **** Doc!" reaction). Right Skipper...have you notified the Cubi Point Agent...or either of the Special Agents in Charge at either Office?

Him...."No....but I don't have time as I have to make a Tee Time in a few minutes."

I am not making this up.....in the end we pulled it off....a full detail of agents, my house mate handing out guns as the vehicles drove through the Main Gate into town, my Boss wearing swim trunks riding in the Ambulance, and the Detail dressed in various states of dress from shorts and flip flops to our daily work outfits.

Mind you it was a twenty minute drive to Cubi Point to meet the arriving aircraft with Ms Marcos.

I never did see the C-130 that was supposed to follow her around with her spare sets of shoes.

Thanks for the clarification people, though I'm still flummoxed by how anyone can pretend that the existence of an aircraft that's been seen on a daily basis and frequently displayed in public for the best part of half a century can be considered "secret"in any way at all, let alone why anyone woud want to pretend it so.

All the pompous "in jokes" aside it IS amusing if you ever get the opportunity to listen in to ATC over there, that they still never actually ackowledge the aircraft type to others, they simply refer to it as "local traffic" or something equally mundane! So it COULD be the flying club Ce.172, although the broad US accent and not very oblique RT callsign is a bit of a giveaway :)

About keeping secrets - In palmdale, the plant that did the final assembly of the B2 bomber was surrounded on several sides by high built up earthen berms to prevent inadvertent photos if hangar doors were opened of what was inside. Of course when rollout of the first flight model was to take place great effort was made to only allow a front view for the press and dignataries and severe restrictions were in place regarding views/photos which might show the trailing edges and certain features of stealth technology.

But the mensa intel types- forgetting that a public airport was quite close - a few hundred yards at best - did not think to close the airspace during the rollout . The result is history. Seems that Avaiation Week ( sometimes called avaition leak ) simply hired a cessna for their photographer to fly overhead during the rollout. The resulting photo can be found- along with part of the story

https://uspolitics.10ztalk.com/2018/...omber-rollout/

And then there is the story ( possibly embellished ) about the plant in east los angeles that was the ' engineering- design ' building complex. knowing that the russian satellite made passes over the area from time to time- somehow the roof got painted with a fewlarge letters from the cyrillic alphabet which a rough translation suggested a physical impossibility or the equivalent of a freeway salute

CONSO, the B-2 rollout thing is a great story and far be it from me to suggest that AvLeak might have reasons to embellish how sensitive the planform was supposed to be that day, but... this is a photo from the spectators' viewpoint, taken at the rollout ceremony.

Check out the star.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bb2ed2c777.jpg

Classic case of Mass Delusion - it never happened, they never happened, I know nuffin', it's all a bad dream................ ;)

Bosseyed- The AV week story is true and factual- and I can assure you the reasons to reduce closeup views of the backside were much more than the " sawtooth " configuration . ;)

Of course It isn't secret, but the pompous old farts of PPruNe, none more so than the even more pompous and even older and fartier Mil Aviation regulars love to do this stuff; Hint heavily that they were privy to hush hush stuff, while really openly stating where, when and who it was that they "definitely didn't see". Just so you know they were actually there, so you can doff your cap to them. It's just a form of attention seeking really. If it was really secret, and someone was involved directly, it wouldn't be discussed here.
If you want to experience having a similar personality disorder, just hang around a bar wearing a veteran badge, occasionally touch your nose and say something like "I'd tell you but I'd have to kill you", and you too can feel like BEagle and a lot of the other old wrecks that make up the Mil (or rather the RAF of the 1960s and 70s) forum.

Someone must not be on friendly terms with the Missus for a while!

And there was me thinking that the weather balloon that wasn't there was quite a good long-running joke, set to annoy the humourless and to entertain us old wrecks.

Laarbruch72, perhaps your first post in the Military forum since Dec 2017 says more about you than about those you choose to insult?

Whatever - it adds nothing of any merit to the discussion at hand.

I suppose I am heading into old fart territory but I thought it was just a long running joke around the impossibility of keepung something so loud and smokey secret.
It's only an "in" joke in as much as it's generally reserved for those who've seen it. Or haven't.

When the B2 last landed at RIAT and placed on static, it was specifically positioned to make it impossible to have a look around the back.

Armed Police guards were on hand to enforce this.

" you too can feel like BEagle and a lot of the other old wrecks that make up the Mil (or rather the RAF of the 1960s and 70s) forum."

Ooooohhhh Fight, Fight , FIGHT!!!!

That really is a bit harsh don't you think??????? :=

PS if you have a complaint about Pilots just stay away from a Climbing Club or bar....................