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Not a great fan of television at the best of times, but I was impressed with last night's presentation. Came over very nicely, I thought. Brought back some fond memories of the early '70's when I escorted the team (Gnats) over the "pond" on their first trip to the States (I had the Vulcan!). Great bunch then and they still seem to have the same attitude today! Keep going, guys!
Bill |
Much was made,in the second episode,of the photographer being awarded and securing her position in "The Circus". In the commentary about them it was mentioned that they fly in the rear seat and then service the jet after transit. Who then does the work on the photographers aircraft? She is in a non techie trade and cannot carry out flight servicings:- So does someone have to double up?
Agree that it seems to give good coverage to the squadron and not just the "Red" bit. |
Like some on here, I tend to almost deliberately stay away from series like this for fear of being disappointed, but given the recommendations from family, and the good words here, I watched last nights episode.
I thought it was OK, but nothing more for me anyway. I found some of the flying sequences a bit repetitive, and the same with much of the ground stuff as well. Some of the insight into the how the Reds function as a unit, and how different they appear to be from any other RAF squadron, was interesting. I kind of expected much of the uniqueness of the Reds to have been ironed out by successive H&S and compliance mandates, but glad it seems to still persevere! Was also sad to see the shocking state of their line hut / accommodation, and Scampton generally. Can't help but thinkng there's nowhere better (location wise) for them though. Even if they end up moving down the A1 to Wittering you can imagine they'd still use the overhead for practicing, just like they did last time they closed Scampton. I just wish the government would grow some balls, and a sense of pride, and spend some cash on the poor place! And, yes, I also was moved by the footage of the Cpl - very sad loss obviously. |
Surely the new pilots have LOTS of experience of formation flying, so why the big deal? Secondly, why on eath. do the blues need to swin 4 lengrhs of a pool in a flying suit ? In my day, dinghy drill, the training was to board your dinghy attached , to your life jacket, supported by your Mae West, and an in immersion suit. Etc., No swimming required ! |
Surely the new pilots have LOTS of experience of formation flying, so why the big deal? |
Originally Posted by H Peacock
(Post 10363616)
. Does any other outfit teach guys to start applying a control input based on the leader's voice command? |
Originally Posted by Tashengurt
(Post 10363713)
I believe the Blue angels use the same method.
Listening to the comms during the opposition Spit display at RIAT one year, you’d have been forgiven for thinking they’d been on the Helium during strap in. 🤣. Old habits never fade? |
Back when Team pilots had hair, Boss had Joe Pasquale in the boot. Rest of us did the radio calls in Pasquale style. Infantile humour appreciated by the man himself.
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When little joe was asked what he wanted to be when he grew up he replied, a fighter pilot! Dont’t be silly his mother replied, you can’t do both! I remember 1980 (I think) when I helped convert the Arrows from Gnats to Hawks, it was much the same. |
Another thought. Soon, like 3 days, it’s the anniversary of the Kemble head on in 1971. John Haddock died in that accident. He was my first QFI at Syerston. Not an easy man to get to know but the reason I flew fast jets. Respect, good memories and thanks. |
From Wednesday's episode I take it that if a member of the Circus is flying in the back and he/she and the pilot have to eject over water, the pilot is rescued by helicopter and the Circus member is rescued by boat?
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ID,it used to be that the pilot could walk home...
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This series has given me a whole new level of respect for Red 1.
I can't even begin to imagine how much capacity is required to talk in the way he does while keeping the jet in formation and making those control inputs. "Perty" is a legend. |
Three episodes in and I am still rather impressed by the sensible detail instead of the usual Meeja bullshot. A very convincing expose of what really is involved in doing ‘diddley-up’ and, indeed, flying ‘quite fast’ jets. Respect. |
I think the programme is brilliant - and I’ll be honest, I’m impressed by what they do - but have never been an an out and out fan of the nation possessing an aerobatic team from a capability stand point. My only pick up point is the voice over to the opening shots which implies that the team are all combat veterans...which I’m not sure is correct. I think that there’s something appropriate in the frugality of the set up. Just my opinion but white boards and traditional accommodation is spot on for a unit practising close formation in Hawks. They do it very well and they’re coming across brilliantly. |
I was actually admiring the office accommodation for a flt lt, which in my day as a wg cdr at MoD had 5 senior officers in about that space!! |
I was actually admiring the office accommodation for a flt lt |
Originally Posted by orca
(Post 10370745)
I think the programme is brilliant - and I’ll be honest, I’m impressed by what they do - but have never been an an out and out fan of the nation possessing an aerobatic team from a capability stand point. My only pick up point is the voice over to the opening shots which implies that the team are all combat veterans...which I’m not sure is correct. I think that there’s something appropriate in the frugality of the set up. Just my opinion but white boards and traditional accommodation is spot on for a unit practising close formation in Hawks. They do it very well and they’re coming across brilliantly. As for the reds, I'm pretty confident that all of them have done a det or 6 to a sunny eastern med location or, even better, further east. I stand ready to be corrected though, there's always someone who manages to buck the trend. |
Originally Posted by pba_target
(Post 10371295)
Orca - not having a dig, but I'd be interested to know how many people in the RAF who have operated a front line aircraft at the present time are NOT combat veterans (if we define "combat" as an operational tour where where some operational effect is delivered, for the sake of our multi-engine brethren.)
As for the reds, I'm pretty confident that all of them have done a det or 6 to a sunny eastern med location or, even better, further east. I stand ready to be corrected though, there's always someone who manages to buck the trend. Red Arrows team members |
Thank you to the last two posters. I am aware of the selection criteria and the Op tempo. I am however not swayed by the ‘therefore they must have’ argument. I’m still not convinced that all the Hawk operators we’ve seen are veterans of combat, which is not a dig at their commitment, professionalism or how brilliantly they’re coming across. Edited to add: If one were to have a brief look at the mess dinner in episode 1 you could conclude that MOD agrees that at least two of the team are not combat veterans. Or they are choosing not to wear campaign medals...which would be odd. This matters not a jot - my point was about an inaccurate voice over. FWIW - and far more emotively I hold the belief, rightly or wrongly, that only a subset of those with campaign medals will actually be combat veterans as the criteria for award rarely features combat. I would define a combat veteran as anyone who was within effective weapons range of hostiles during fighting, or similar. Excellent programme. |
Combat ready?
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Originally Posted by MPN11
(Post 10370781)
I was actually admiring the office accommodation for a flt lt, which in my day as a wg cdr at MoD had 5 senior officers in about that space!! Progress I guess? |
Originally Posted by orca
(Post 10372138)
FWIW - and far more emotively I hold the belief, rightly or wrongly, that only a subset of those with campaign medals will actually be combat veterans as the criteria for award rarely features combat. I would define a combat veteran as anyone who was within effective weapons range of hostiles during fighting, or similar. Excellent programme. |
How did they drop weapons on people if they weren’t within effective weapons range? If they were employing lethal force then they were certainly fighting within effective weapon range. My definition probably falls down when it comes to the drone community. Maybe I should have just said that a combat vet is exactly that, not someone who spent time in a JOA. |
My bad, I thought you meant effective weapons range of an enemy weapons system! Drone operators will always be a challenignc one to define I agree, though I've absolute respect for what they do/go through.
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orca wrote:
I would define a combat veteran as anyone who was within effective weapons range of hostiles during fighting, or similar. It is indeed a very good programme - this week's will be very interesting. |
Originally Posted by BEagle
(Post 10373073)
orca wrote:
Such as everyone subjected to Scud attacks in GW1? Not a particularly good determinant... It is indeed a very good programme - this week's will be very interesting. I was on the receiving end of Scuds at Dharhan but I wouldn't consider myself a combat veteran. I think that's stretching the definition. |
Without wanting to labour the point Beagle, Tashengurt - if you (or anyone else) came under an attack then you were within effective weapons range... I would, however like to apologise for my part in definition/ pedantry/ thread drift etc which has spawned from simply pointing out that the voice over was incorrect in an otherwise great programme. |
Nicely done without being over the top. I may even head to Scampton this afternoon to watch if anyone knows which slot they’re using. Eclat means brilliant. :} |
Bravo Zulu to the film makers. That was a difficult subject tastefully and respectfully done. |
Did Starky not recover sufficiently to rejoin the team for 2019?
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Originally Posted by Timelord
(Post 10375910)
Bravo Zulu to the film makers. That was a difficult subject tastefully and respectfully done. Couldn’t agree more.👍 |
Originally Posted by Parson
(Post 10376324)
Did Starky not recover sufficiently to rejoin the team for 2019?
He is not included in the Team: https://www.raf.mod.uk/display-teams...isplay-season/ |
DON T - yeah i know, thats why I asked. I was wondering if he hadnt recovered sufficiently to rejoin.
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Just watched the latest which I recorded and somewhat disappointed to hear the leader pronounce schedule as skedule:rolleyes:
Got off a BA flight ( A320 ) where the F/O who was flying it stood by the door when we were offloading at LHR ( When did they start doing that? ) who likewise pronounced it as skedule. I probably embarrassed him by pointing out the errors of his ways poor lad. I keep hearing it on BBC too from people who should know better. |
Originally Posted by thegypsy
(Post 10385930)
Just watched the latest which I recorded and somewhat disappointed to hear the leader pronounce schedule as skedule:rolleyes:
Got off a BA flight ( A320 ) where the F/O who was flying it stood by the door when we were offloading at LHR ( When did they start doing that? ) who likewise pronounced it as skedule. I probably embarrassed him by pointing out the errors of his ways poor lad. I keep hearing it on BBC too from people who should know better. |
Originally Posted by thegypsy
(Post 10385930)
Just watched the latest which I recorded and somewhat disappointed to hear the leader pronounce schedule as skedule
Anyway, excellent effort by Channel 5, for a change. |
Bastardisation of the English language is deplorable - even the BBC has dropped its RP standards due to the Islington metrognomes and the influence of meeja-city Northern English accents. Tha' knaws
A few examples: 'Reeesearch' instead of 'Rissearch' "I'm good" instead of "I'm well" or "I'm fine" Americans stress the wrong word in 2 word phrases such as 'Robin Hood' or 'Top Gear'- so now the BBC uses 'TOPgear' instead of 'TopGEAR' thegypsy, I trust you cuffed the young sprog about the swede and banned him from making any PAannouncements until he'd learned to speak proper Nigel-speak? Anyway, back to the plot as Kenny Everett would say. The Channel 5 'Kings of the Sky' programme really is rather good - apart from the '4-point barrel roll' guff. |
Bastardisation of the English language is deplorable - even the BBC has dropped its RP standards due to the Islington metrognomes and the influence of meeja-city Northern English accents. Tha' knaws |
Private jet, that's not really true. Down to the laziness of school teachers who lower their standards instead of insisting on correct use of English. There was a very interesting series on TV recently 'Back in Time for School', hosted by someone called Sara Cox. Her standard of English was pitiful, as was that of many of the alleged teachers.
As for the pupils, it seems that 'like' is like, used during each piece of like dialogue. Innit...like? |
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