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Kipper Fleet targets
Excellent series on BBC Four about the Kipper Fleet targets during the cold war. Available on catchup TV and the program is called "Silent War". I found it fascinating to see the operations from the opponents perspective.
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Originally Posted by cynicalint
(Post 10252327)
Excellent series on BBC Four about the Kipper Fleet targets during the cold war. Available on catchup TV and the program is called "Silent War". I found it fascinating to see the operations from the opponents perspective.
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The Kipper fleet targets were our own SSN fleet? Who knew?
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
(Post 10252536)
The Kipper fleet targets were our own SSN fleet? Who knew?
Lots of incidents were not covered but I found the Swiftsure/Kiev story fascinating as was David Owen's input. As an aside, there is a US author that I am in contact with, his first novel involved a submarine transiting the Bosporus under cover of a mership. Sandy Woodward was one of his advisors and the technical detail was identical to the programme. |
I'd be grateful for the title of the book, please Thanks for your time and trouble. Be lucky David |
You might be interested in this, the guy who I believe wrote it is Russian and has been posting it in instalments of the flypast web site, see
Carpathian Military District Eastern Order of Battle https://forum.keypublishing.com/foru...g-the-cold-war |
Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur
(Post 10252589)
I'd be grateful for the title of the book, please Thanks for your time and trouble. Be lucky David PS Oh dear, thank you ea200, I was wrong it was Patrick Robinson |
Patrick Robinson used the Bosphorus transit storyline in his 1997 book Nimitz Class. From memory he also credits Sandy Woodward.
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10252651)
Look up RE McDermott and his Tom Dugan trilogy. He has also published an Apocalypse or Disruption trilogy after a Solar storm outage.
PS Oh dear, thank you ea200, I was wrong it was Patrick Robinson Many thanks. Search and research begins now. Be lucky David |
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10252540)
Nah, any submarine was legit until it proved friendly and even then only after it admitted a 'kill'.
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As in waterspace management, there is airspace management for MPA. Of course if neither submarine or MPA are in assigned spaces, normal rules apply.
One day an SSN was transiting on the surface East of Scotland. Every oil rig helicopter called it in on common and every Nimrod in the area homed in. As one helo called in, you look like bees round a honey pot as 3 Nimrods took turns. I think our dark blue friend was not happy. |
The comment that really intrigued me was that the RN submarine fleet was the only British Force element that was in regular contact with the enemy as if it wwre war. I think a little bit of well deserved, if not totally accurate, pride on the Commodore's behalf. The satisfaction gained from a hot handover was knowing that a weapon could have been dropped and been effective.
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Cynical, hard to prove or disprove, but only true of the North Atlantic and Norwegian Sea. Certainly true where low numbers meant operations were more frequent. It certainly fell to Norway and UK to play catch as submarines entered the Atlantic from North Fleet. The USN would obviously take over in Westlant. The Nimrod force was in regular contact. As for USN P3, the one sqn on rotation at Keflavik was in the front line but there were so many home based P3 that opportunities would be very thin.
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For those interested, Shelley Sontags “Blind Man’s Buff” is an excellent book on the topic. Covers mainly USN due to her husbands career but includes some great RN exploits as well. |
I’m not sure about the programme, it seems a little too disjointed to enable the viewer to gain an accurate picture of the timeline of the development and progress in Cold War ASW. I’m not sure what the Wg Cdr in No 1s using a brass letter opener as pointer added to the story either! I bet the RN selected that bit. To gain a better appreciation does require some effort and those without an ASW background they may wish to start with Padfield’s War Beneath The Sea which provides a pretty good overview of the development of submarine and ASW tactics to the end of the Second World War. Jinks and Hennessy’s The Silent Deep takes over where Padfield ends with an account of RN submarine operations post 1945. Jinks and Hennessy make it clear that for considerable periods, RN submarines lacked a reliable and effective ASW torpedo and I shall be interested if any mention is made of that on the tv programme. Mind you, I was never quite certain how effective the Mk 46 would have been, particularly towards the end of its service life. YS |
YS, on your last, much more effective than the 44 which only got a functioning fuse just before it was out of service. And even the 44 was more effective than the 30.
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Originally Posted by ea200
(Post 10252933)
Patrick Robinson used the Bosphorus transit storyline in his 1997 book Nimitz Class. From memory he also credits Sandy Woodward.
So they are even. Or such. |
Thanks Marcantilan, heard of it but never read it. Must make a point of doing so.
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Second installment tonight, with a passing nod to Nimrods and P3s. Anyone on the fleet in the mid eighties would recognise sone of the events portrayed in the programme. Available on catch-up BBC4...
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Why doesn't the RN operate the MPA fleet?
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Not sure if it was this thread or another discussing sub warfare during the Cold War. A poster mentioned he’d seen pictures of a Soviet sub on the surface about to collide with a USN ship. Quite by accident I came across the link below which seems to contain said images. https://fas.org/blogs/security/2016/...eapons-at-sea/ |
WC, that is the one, USS Voge. I was on the kipper fleet then. Not sure where I saw in, Navy Intelligence Review I guess.
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Interesting bit about Our submarine clocking the Kiev and noting it's characteristics for future reference.
I was delayed on the runway before a routine training flight whilst a land rover handed a re-tasking package through the door. The Kiev had emerged and was in the Atlantic; we were supposed to go find it. We did and got the first pics with the trusty F95. Here's an example https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8929f8f6a2.jpg |
Sorry about the size of the image; I think we fibbed about the height!
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As I remember it, when the Kiev first appeared in 1976, with those two fixed wing aircraft on the rear of the flight deck, we were assured by intelligence that the USSR had no aircraft ready for carrier ops. Therefore they were either mock ups to fool us, or mock ups for the deck crews to get used to handling them. There was some consternation when one of these mock ups took off.
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Remember me this thread: https://www.pprune.org/military-avia...ictor-iii.html
I have the pic of the sub somewhere. It looks like the image host lost it! Regards, |
Originally Posted by oxenos
(Post 10258786)
As I remember it, when the Kiev first appeared in 1976, with those two fixed wing aircraft on the rear of the flight deck, we were assured by intelligence that the USSR had no aircraft ready for carrier ops. Therefore they were either mock ups to fool us, or mock ups for the deck crews to get used to handling them. There was some consternation when one of these mock ups took off.
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The OH saw the first Kiev pictures on the Air Commander's table in Malta in 76 when she was his ADC. Excitement all round.
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Originally Posted by Marcantilan
(Post 10259064)
Remember me this thread: https://www.pprune.org/military-avia...ictor-iii.html
I have the pic of the sub somewhere. It looks like the image host lost it! Regards, |
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10259219)
The link says page not found. Was that the one with the whole stern section out of the water in a crash dive?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9b3904808f.jpg |
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