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Kipper Fleet targets

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Kipper Fleet targets

Old 18th Sep 2018, 23:01
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Kipper Fleet targets

Excellent series on BBC Four about the Kipper Fleet targets during the cold war. Available on catchup TV and the program is called "Silent War". I found it fascinating to see the operations from the opponents perspective.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 06:04
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Originally Posted by cynicalint View Post
Excellent series on BBC Four about the Kipper Fleet targets during the cold war. Available on catchup TV and the program is called "Silent War". I found it fascinating to see the operations from the opponents perspective.
Thank you.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 07:37
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The Kipper fleet targets were our own SSN fleet? Who knew?
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 07:42
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
The Kipper fleet targets were our own SSN fleet? Who knew?
Nah, any submarine was legit until it proved friendly and even then only after it admitted a 'kill'.

Lots of incidents were not covered but I found the Swiftsure/Kiev story fascinating as was David Owen's input.

As an aside, there is a US author that I am in contact with, his first novel involved a submarine transiting the Bosporus under cover of a mership. Sandy Woodward was one of his advisors and the technical detail was identical to the programme.

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Old 19th Sep 2018, 09:12
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I'd be grateful for the title of the book, please
Thanks for your time and trouble.
Be lucky
David
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 09:41
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You might be interested in this, the guy who I believe wrote it is Russian and has been posting it in instalments of the flypast web site, see

Carpathian Military District

Eastern Order of Battle

https://forum.keypublishing.com/foru...g-the-cold-war
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 10:35
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Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur View Post
I'd be grateful for the title of the book, please
Thanks for your time and trouble.
Be lucky
David
Look up RE McDermott and his Tom Dugan trilogy. He has also published an Apocalypse or Disruption trilogy after a Solar storm outage.

PS

Oh dear, thank you ea200, I was wrong it was Patrick Robinson

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Old 19th Sep 2018, 15:59
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Patrick Robinson used the Bosphorus transit storyline in his 1997 book Nimitz Class. From memory he also credits Sandy Woodward.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 17:51
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Look up RE McDermott and his Tom Dugan trilogy. He has also published an Apocalypse or Disruption trilogy after a Solar storm outage.

PS

Oh dear, thank you ea200, I was wrong it was Patrick Robinson
Sir,
Many thanks. Search and research begins now.
Be lucky
David
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 18:44
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Nah, any submarine was legit until it proved friendly and even then only after it admitted a 'kill'.
Truly. We bounced and pinged the T-boat in the trail twice in one trip as the Akula we were both tracking made its escape. I think the friendly waterspace management was very poor that day.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 18:54
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As in waterspace management, there is airspace management for MPA. Of course if neither submarine or MPA are in assigned spaces, normal rules apply.

One day an SSN was transiting on the surface East of Scotland. Every oil rig helicopter called it in on common and every Nimrod in the area homed in. As one helo called in, you look like bees round a honey pot as 3 Nimrods took turns. I think our dark blue friend was not happy.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 19:10
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The comment that really intrigued me was that the RN submarine fleet was the only British Force element that was in regular contact with the enemy as if it wwre war. I think a little bit of well deserved, if not totally accurate, pride on the Commodore's behalf. The satisfaction gained from a hot handover was knowing that a weapon could have been dropped and been effective.
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Old 20th Sep 2018, 07:27
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Cynical, hard to prove or disprove, but only true of the North Atlantic and Norwegian Sea. Certainly true where low numbers meant operations were more frequent. It certainly fell to Norway and UK to play catch as submarines entered the Atlantic from North Fleet. The USN would obviously take over in Westlant. The Nimrod force was in regular contact. As for USN P3, the one sqn on rotation at Keflavik was in the front line but there were so many home based P3 that opportunities would be very thin.
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Old 20th Sep 2018, 17:19
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For those interested, Shelley Sontags “Blind Man’s Buff” is an excellent book on the topic. Covers mainly USN due to her husbands career but includes some great RN exploits as well.
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Old 20th Sep 2018, 17:52
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I’m not sure about the programme, it seems a little too disjointed to enable the viewer to gain an accurate picture of the timeline of the development and progress in Cold War ASW. I’m not sure what the Wg Cdr in No 1s using a brass letter opener as pointer added to the story either! I bet the RN selected that bit.

To gain a better appreciation does require some effort and those without an ASW background they may wish to start with Padfield’s War Beneath The Sea which provides a pretty good overview of the development of submarine and ASW tactics to the end of the Second World War. Jinks and Hennessy’s The Silent Deep takes over where Padfield ends with an account of RN submarine operations post 1945. Jinks and Hennessy make it clear that for considerable periods, RN submarines lacked a reliable and effective ASW torpedo and I shall be interested if any mention is made of that on the tv programme. Mind you, I was never quite certain how effective the Mk 46 would have been, particularly towards the end of its service life.

YS
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Old 20th Sep 2018, 20:21
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YS, on your last, much more effective than the 44 which only got a functioning fuse just before it was out of service. And even the 44 was more effective than the 30.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 17:26
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Originally Posted by ea200 View Post
Patrick Robinson used the Bosphorus transit storyline in his 1997 book Nimitz Class. From memory he also credits Sandy Woodward.
Yes. And Patrick Robinson helped Woodward writing "One Hundred Days".

So they are even. Or such.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 22:53
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Thanks Marcantilan, heard of it but never read it. Must make a point of doing so.
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Old 25th Sep 2018, 23:03
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Second installment tonight, with a passing nod to Nimrods and P3s. Anyone on the fleet in the mid eighties would recognise sone of the events portrayed in the programme. Available on catch-up BBC4...
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Old 25th Sep 2018, 23:41
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Why doesn't the RN operate the MPA fleet?
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