|
Reasons to like France
While traveling up from the south, I’ve been feeling quite nostalgic for the fifties and sixties when we still had an aiforce that had some money for fuel. Most days in most regions I’ve heard and seen lovely flights of fast jets tonking around the shop. My breakfast this morning was to the music of jets at full chat off to play in the Jura, I guess with other chaps. Couldn’t see them but it took me back to my youth in places like Norfolk and Suffolk. I don’t know how many hours you get a month now. I’m told that it isn’t so much. What ever happens politically, I devoutly hope that we, as a nation, will realise that there is no substitute for hours in the cockpit. |
Originally Posted by effortless
(Post 1025)
I devoutly hope that we, as a nation, will realise that there is no substitute for hours in the cockpit.
The Sim can't kill you, the aircraft can. You can see the result of firing at a target in the Sim. There is no guarantee the the real target will behave the same way. Or that a missile will launch as intended. Sims work well as procedure and systems trainers but are no substitute. |
Whilst I love France and seeing jets wazzing around...
Conversely there are things that a sim does better than the aircraft, par example; Emergency training where the simulated emergency would be too dangerous to practice in the real aircraft and Weapon firing (thinking complex here not guns) with a dynamic target(s) in a complex scenario which is not possible in a range environment. |
3 reasons
Patrouille de France display directly over our campsite in northern Brittany
Pair of Rafales low over our campsite in a Dordogne valley Pair of Rafales low over the sea along the Finisterre coast |
Sims do not help the logistics or engineering chains: modelling of failures is not a reliable way to find out how to fix your jets expeditiously when you're not at your MOB.
|
Sims have a valuable role to play, but their key drawback is unavoidable; they can only represent the expected. All of the software models how we expect the aircraft/ weapon / opponent / etc / etc to behave. Whilst the models no doubt represent our best assessment of what will happen in a given combination of circumstances, they are by definition framed by our pre existing expectations. In other words there are no surprises, whereas in real life, experience tells us that surprises are still plentiful!
|
Rafales over our campsite in the Dordogne this summer, wonderful sound and sight!
|
Used to love our "training" weekends to Lorient and Nimes. Great times in lovely places.
|
As well as the undoubted reduction in numbers and flying hours the lack of “sight and sound” of jets is because low level as a tactic is thouroughly out of fashion in the U.K. Maybe the French have a different view.... or maybe, being French, they just keep doing it because it’s more fun |
They are pretty high level at the moment. Can only hear them and see pretty patterns at high level. Guess they are from St Dizier. |
Reasons to like France - cheese, wine, Paris 40 years ago, and the Mirage 50. But that’s just me. |
The Mirage IV.
A stonking great 1960's streamlined hulk of a jet - and beautiful in it's silver incarnation. Just the thing you could imagine delivering the fin du monde. A proper croissant dipped in a bol of milky coffee at a streetside cafe in the 3rd, while gazing wistfully at those french girls who were utterly unobtainable because one's french was complete merde... |
My first North Sea ACMI hop was a 1 v 2 against French Mirage 2000 RDY Mica firers. I was a student, the French wingy was new to the frontline. It was getting dark. The French #1 suggested that their VID profile practice move from serial 3 to serial 1. It was inky by the time we merged - and I remember the delta planform as it passed (just!) over my canopy like it was yesterday. Some leaders would have called it a day at that point - but my French mates and I knocked out a couple more sets. First time I’d flown with IRCM too - they looked great in the twilight. Have a feeling I used far more of them than my new mates! Ah, the days of high adventure, sadly now in the past. |
I know its doesn't directly impact on ops or operational flying ability, but IMHO the French Armee de L'air Rafale display is probably the best fast jet flying display in Europe, with the Couteau Delta Mirages and Aeronautique Navale Rafale M's not too far behind.
. |
If we are reminiscing; posted to Istres as a 20 year old in 1957. :D
Discovering I'sle de l'Reunion as a 55 year old and going back 4 more times. |
Originally Posted by ian16th
(Post 10252587)
If we are reminiscing; posted to Istres as a 20 year old in 1957. :D
:ooh: |
Originally Posted by switch_on_lofty
(Post 10251684)
Weapon firing (thinking complex here not guns) with a dynamic target(s) in a complex scenario which is not possible in a range environment.
|
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10252849)
off-range targets.
|
Reasons to like France?
3 years at FAF Cognac on 315GE instructing in French on both Epsilon and Magister alongside Air Force and Naval aviators both commissioned and non-commissioned. Amazement at watching a QFI consume half a bottle of wine and then sit behind him in the Magister as he slipped into the box of a mixed formation 9 ship flypast for change of Base Commander. The wonderful use of the third person indefinite so as to avoid attributing responsibility (as one of my students admitted, On est un con.) I had a ball!! |
The Mirage IV. A stonking great 1960's streamlined hulk of a jet - and beautiful in it's silver incarnation. Just the thing you could imagine delivering the fin du monde. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1f7a7fc46d.jpg |
I recall the FAF making an excellent airfield attack with a Mirage IV when I was at pre-pongo Wattisham....
....on Rattlesden disused aerodrome :hmm: Close, but no cigar! Reasons to like France? Bardot in her 30s for one! |
As a member of CENTO the French decided it would be a good idea to rock up to Akrotiri. The only PPR (request) was the call to Approach for landing. Two Mirage IV lobbed in followed 20 minutes later by their KC 135FR. They loaded up with fuel, got MT to the Mess, loaded up with duty free and departed.
Not quite the same, Mirage. IV diverted in the HMS Fulmar engine out. Later an Atlas pitched up with a new engine, change team, and the lot departed. The MOD was livid as they only found out afterwards. |
Visited a radar site above Nice, about '93. Part of the Mess hall wall was covered with a large tarpaulin. Apparently there were regular low level practice attacks from an 'orange' country to the south. He had got a DH with a tank or practice bomb. They didn't seem perturbed. Lunch was an all ranks affair. There seemed to be a shortage of water as we had to make do with red wine.
|
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10253494)
Lunch was an all ranks affair. There seemed to be a shortage of water as we had to make do with red wine.
The wine was Algerian and rather ruff! But one developed a palette :ok: |
Down at the beach walking the dog when a singleton Alpha Jet from the Patrouille de France appeared out of the early morning mist about ½ mile out to sea at low level briskly heading north..
While we're on French aircraft, I spotted a Fouga Magister on static display at Salon-de-Provence 4-5 years ago. I can't remember another jet that sits so close to the ground. |
Usually see several low level pairs of Alphajets every weekday. Also the occasional Rafale and Puma. Monday at noon (GMT) I was in town and caught a glimpse of an Earth Brown coloured aircraft flying, at low level, heading north over the lakes. Did not get a good look due to the rooftops, but it looked as though it was a Spitfire, sounded like one as well. Thirty minutes ago something flew over sounding the same, but I was not able to get sight due to the trees in the forest. Could it have been? And No I had not been on the vino. The local wine is quite good down here in the Bordeaux region, if you haven't heard.
The beaches are quite attractive at this time of year. I think Dolly Parton has a lot of relatives here.https://www.pprune.org/images/infopop/icons/icon7.gif |
Originally Posted by sidevalve
(Post 10253685)
Down at the beach walking the dog when a singleton Alpha Jet from the Patrouille de France appeared out of the early morning mist about ½ mile out to sea at low level briskly heading north..
While we're on French aircraft, I spotted a Fouga Magister on static display at Salon-de-Provence 4-5 years ago. I can't remember another jet that sits so close to the ground. Not it quite but the Vampire was close |
A good friend, who is sadly no longer with us, was on the usual NATO Wintex in Norway. At the time, he was flying Canberras and he was at either at Andoya or Bodo (I think). Suddenly, a FAF Mirage IV appeared in the circuit and landed. Apparently, it had become "unsure of its position" and was rather short of fuel. In the subsequent PU (which went on for some time) the navigator was given a new name tag by the RAF: "To Lose Le Track" which he sported for the rest of the night.
|
Would it surprise you to know that the Magister was developed from a wooden glider?
|
It would! I hadn't heard that one before.. It looked aerodynamically very clean.
|
Apart from watching an excellent demo from a couple of Mirage 2000's at Pons this year, sitting in the garden yesterday, I saw some high altitude refueling over Royan. Twin contrails flying an irregular pattern, suddenly joined by two separate contrails appearing as if from nowhere. Then, a spiral of white lines breaking-off and disappearing. Perfect.
|
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d1ff1e7189.jpg
Fouga CM8 the model upon which the Magister was based |
|
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6f57e43524.jpg
The first attempt at making it a twin engine aircraft |
To lose le track.
Very good! |
Superb photos Beardy - I had a browse on the web yesterday looking for clues as to the Magister's forebears but found rien. However, I did find this mother lode of early images just now.
Many thanks! |
Strake, enjoyed the show too - was at Pons - but it was adjectivally hot
|
A bit late in posting, but this passed overhead yesterday morning..
https://noratlas-de-provence.com/ The itinerary says it was heading for Grenoble, but it was tracking North West. Maybe taking the scenic route up the Rhone valley then into the Isere? A few years ago we would see a Fouga Zephyr and Douglas Skyraider flying in formation (an odd couple), but they have been absent from the skies recently. |
Originally Posted by ian16th
(Post 10253680)
SOP for lunch & dinner at RAF Liaison Party Istres.
The wine was Algerian and rather ruff! But one developed a palette :ok: * FAFLO at 11 Gp, in the next office, and subsequently re-encountered in FAF Defence Sales. Bon jour, Marcel ... I remember you [and your Calvados] well! :) |
Originally Posted by MPN11
(Post 10256321)
My sole encounter was at Mont De Marsin, where my FAF colleague* advised me to ignore the decanters of Red deployed on the lunch table. I tested, and agreed his advice!!
We had plain brown bottles, 2 per table, also 2 clear bottles of water. If they were emptied, the water was replenished from the tap, and the wine from an enormous barrel that was just inside the kitchen door. On arrival I was advised to drink the wine 50/50 with the water, 'till I got used to it. It took a week.:) |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 04:30. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.