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UK Minister calls for pay increase for servicemen
According to the Times today front page headline Tobias Ellwood has called for a pay rise and for defence spending to increase to "north of 2.5% of GDP"
Lets see how long he survives incoming Treasury fire.................... |
2.1% in Sep, backdated to Apr 01. Watch this space. Better than 1% but still a pay cut in ‘real terms’ as inflation is circa 2.8% currently. Ho hum..... also better than a kick in the teeth |
What about servicewomen?
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Originally Posted by wokkamate
(Post 10159276)
2.1% in Sep, backdated to Apr 01. Watch this space. Better than 1% but still a pay cut in ‘real terms’ as inflation is circa 2.8% currently. Ho hum..... also better than a kick in the teeth |
3% would be nice! I very much doubt it will ever happen though
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Any murmurs on Pensions? ;)
Mine appears to gone DOWN for some obscure reason, while the Memsahib got her predicted increase! |
It would be nice if service pensions went up by a decent amount too
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Originally Posted by wokkamate
(Post 10159548)
3% would be nice! I very much doubt it will ever happen though
Perhaps time we look at no income tax whilst on Ops too and maybe look at the NATO payment to the troops for these ops? As for pensions, anyone care to explain how Professional Aviator has been so badly screwed up with AFPS 15? Better off on my existing TACOs, with no ROS and no PVR abatement. |
What about servicewomen? What do you think, Comrade pr00ne? Of course the pay rise (if any) would apply to the whole range of diversity of today's Armed Forces, including the LGB-GT lot or whatever their latest initialisation might be. |
UK MINISTER CALLS FOR PAY INCREASES FOR SERVICEMEN
GLENDOWER. I can call spirits from the vasty deep. HOTSPUR. Why, so can I, or so can any man; but will they come when you do call for them? (Henry IV, Pt. I) |
<applause>, Danny42C. Impressive recall/research! :D |
Originally Posted by wokkamate
(Post 10159276)
2.1% in Sep, backdated to Apr 01. Watch this space. Better than 1% but still a pay cut in ‘real terms’ as inflation is circa 2.8% currently. Ho hum..... also better than a kick in the teeth Still, I just exited so this delayed announcement will clarify how much pension and lump sum I should have been getting. On my first pension payment they included a scrap of paper that noted my pension would be in error but that there was nothing they could do. Pretty poor way to run a pension scheme. |
MPN11,
Thanks - recall, actually, I did "Henry IV, Part I" for my School Cert (82 years ago). What did I have for breakfast yesterday ? Can't remember ! Danny. |
Originally Posted by Just This Once...
(Post 10159936)
It says a lot when the most optimistic figure is yet-another-real-world-cut in pay. How many years in a row has that been the case now?
Still, I just exited so this delayed announcement will clarify how much pension and lump sum I should have been getting. On my first pension payment they included a scrap of paper that noted my pension would be in error but that there was nothing they could do. Pretty poor way to run a pension scheme. Looking over the years 1999 - 2007 when we appeared to do well with 3%+ rises every year apart from 2004, inflation was also relatively high most years meaning that most years were in fact sub-one percent or negative real terms pay deals. The only time other than 2009 that I can see us having had a decent real terms rise was over the period 2001 - 2002 when a 3.7% rise gave a real terms rise of 1.9 and 2.2% respectively. In fact, I can only find 4 years out of the almost 20 I have been in that real terms pay rises have exceeded 1% once inflation is taken into account. |
Originally Posted by Danny42C
(Post 10159954)
MPN11,
Thanks - recall, actually, I did "Henry IV, Part I" for my School Cert (82 years ago). What did I have for breakfast yesterday ? Can't remember ! Danny. |
Melchy, thank you, that is a great piece of analysis. Vin Rouge, you will not see much difference in PAS pension amounts in the first 5 years. You need to get into the upper levels over 10 years plus to see any difference. Also, for AFPS15 then as it is Career Averaging then you need to do some 10-15 years time in to make a significant impact. If you’re thinking of going to PAS for 5 years and then legging it, then it isn’t really worth it IMHO. |
BEagle,
So why did the headline only refer to just under half the population? That's how casual sexism happens, by forgetting a little over half of the population! |
Originally Posted by VinRouge
(Post 10159735)
Perhaps time we look at no income tax whilst on Ops too and maybe look at the NATO payment to the troops for these ops?
. OAP |
Originally Posted by Onceapilot
(Post 10160153)
Unfortunately, that was done with the Op allowance and, the payment was set at something like the lowest rank / pay possible and their tax. So, it was "screwed" from the start. Doesn't mean that it should not be re-fought though!
OAP |
Originally Posted by gijoe
(Post 10161410)
Op Allowance is likely to be kicked into touch at the first opportunity as it is divisive and derisive. I'm not saying it's right, but when we flew in RAFG there was no Op allowance, and boy were we drilled and ready for that day. There's no abundance of money now, and the engineer and administrators are also part of the whole team. I'm afraid this subject has been raging where it counts, for months. |
Originally Posted by gijoe
(Post 10161410)
Op Allowance is likely to be kicked into touch at the first opportunity as it is divisive and derisive. Happy to get it on Herrick, not bothered that I didn't on Shader, Kipion, Ellamy or any other Op I've been on. |
Originally Posted by downsizer
(Post 10161714)
Is it? I've never seen it as such..?
Happy to get it on Herrick, not bothered that I didn't on Shader, Kipion, Ellamy or any other Op I've been on. Agree with above re medals - done to death on here. Believe me, there are places getting the medal and op allowance that are far less busier than the techs hut at Akrotiri. |
The Times: Military spending Defence chiefs will have to fund any salary increases from cuts elsewhere, efficiency savings or deferrals, Stephen Lovegrove, a Ministry of Defence civil servant, told the MPs’ public accounts committee: “There is no indication from the Treasury that we would receive additional funds.” It would be the first pay rise for the forces in eight years. |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 10165184)
The Times: Military spending Defence chiefs will have to fund any salary increases from cuts elsewhere, efficiency savings or deferrals, Stephen Lovegrove, a Ministry of Defence civil servant, told the MPs’ public accounts committee: “There is no indication from the Treasury that we would receive additional funds.” It would be the first pay rise for the forces in eight years. can this Government do ANYTHING???? |
I'm sure that the 'independent' Pay Review Body has recommended what the Treasury has told them to.......so no issues for the Govt.
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
(Post 10160143)
BEagle,
So why did the headline only refer to just under half the population? That's how casual sexism happens, by forgetting a little over half of the population! |
This has interesting repercussions. The cost of living is far higher in the south than in the north; equally those posted in the south-east could claim they are entitled to a “London” or southern allowance..... Daily Telegraph: Pay in the Armed Forces to be Greater in Scotland The Armed Forces will be paid more for serving in Scotland, the head of personnel has suggested. Lt. general Richard Nugee said that soldiers, sailors and airmen will have to be compensated for the higher tax burden north of the border. The MoD is “determined to do something to equalise tax” and make the burden as close in Edinburgh as it is in Westminster, he to.d the public accounts committee. |
I wonder if there’s any substance to a rumour I heard mid-week that it’s now going to be very late in the year before any announcement and speculation that X-factor and increments are being argued about again? |
Scotland Allowance
I was in Lossie ops '75 -'78. With the explosion of the oil industry in Scotland, mostly Aberdeen, and the pay for a married TG9 SAC with two children not going far enough to properly keep my family, the rumoured North of Scotland allowance was eagerly anticipated but it never happened. At the time I was in receipt of FIS (Family Income Supplement) and rent rebate. In order to make ends meet I drove taxis (Aaron & Ross Anderson) occasionally drove Lossie trawler crews in a minibus to/from Ullapool and Lochinver. My Wife cleaned caravans at at Silver Sands caravan camp and worked in Dougies Fish and Chip shop in Hythe Hill. My boss, Sqn. Ldr Jock Urquhart even gave me a chit to permit me to take my unused nightshift rations (Eggs, Bacon, bread cheese and biscuits) home. On one memorable Christmas I had, with much planning bought a load of fish on tick from lossie fish market (80 Stone) and with aid of the lend of a van distributed the fish to the crew of the Brittania from Boscombe, thence into the Bomb bay of a Canberra from, IIRC, Binbrook and a large amount onto a Shack from 8Sqn. which then proceeded to Coningsby where a contact in the tower was waiting to exchange the fish for fresh Lincolnshire vegetables and chicken. These items were pre ordered by families at Lossie. I know that in these enlightened times my story will, I'm sure, appear to some to be just that, a story . However, it is true, and I'm not the only one who had to resort to such measures. Half the Mars Bars in the country were made by airmen from Uxbridge /LATCC Mil working with or without their bosses permission. I don't know how much the guy at Coningsby got for the fish, but after paying for the fish and a few cans for the loan of the van I came out with £34.00. Paid off the catalogue where the childrens presents were purchased and a few tins for me and some thing nice for my wife. It's called survival. Oh and thanks to Jock Urquhart and Paddy Brown, shortly after a much needed posting to Wildenrath, my promotion to Corporal was waiting in Bob Parrots safe in ops. That meant a cross posting to Bruggen where I eventually set the airfield on fire. But that's another story
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[QUOTE][ I wonder if there’s any substance to a rumour I heard mid-week that it’s now going to be very late in the year before any announcement and speculation that X-factor and increments are being argued about again? /QUOTE] Ever since they started quoting pay statements in the form ‘basic pay + X factor’ I’ve been suggesting that this is a precursor to reducing the latter (fewer operations, more stability of postings etc as the excuse). I raised it with some of the AFPRB a while ago, I was assured that X factor had never been reduced and there was no intention to do so...... |
[QUOTE=Ken Scott;10174489]<div style="text-align:left;">
[<br /><br />I wonder if there’s any substance to a rumour I heard mid-week that it’s now going to be very late in the year before any announcement and speculation that X-factor and increments are being argued about again?<br />/QUOTE]<br /><br />Ever since they started quoting pay statements in the form ‘basic pay + X factor’ I’ve been suggesting that this is a precursor to reducing the latter (fewer operations, more stability of postings etc as the excuse). I raised it with some of the AFPRB a while ago, I was assured that X factor had never been reduced and there was no intention to do so......</div> It's ok though, we are going to pump 20 billion into the NHS to keep geriatrics going a bit longer. Rome continues to burn. |
Originally Posted by VinRouge
(Post 10174981)
<div style="text-align:left;">
It's ok though, we are going to pump 20 billion into the NHS to keep geriatrics going a bit longer. Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/health...land-1-4707126 https://www.scotsman.com/news/health...land-1-4707126 but it's okay though.. https://inews.co.uk/news/scotland/wh...means-for-you/ "Almost 150,000 NHS staff in Scotland are to be given an immediate 3 per cent pay rise, Nicola Sturgeon has announced. Nurses, midwives, therapists, paramedics and administrators earning up to £80,000 will receive the extra money in their pay packets from next month, she told the SNP conference in Aberdeen." the SNP have it covered. |
[QUOTE=Ken Scott;10174489] [ I wonder if there’s any substance to a rumour I heard mid-week that it’s now going to be very late in the year before any announcement and speculation that X-factor and increments are being argued about again? /QUOTE] Ever since they started quoting pay statements in the form ‘basic pay + X factor’ I’ve been suggesting that this is a precursor to reducing the latter (fewer operations, more stability of postings etc as the excuse). I raised it with some of the AFPRB a while ago, I was assured that X factor had never been reduced and there was no intention to do so...... But a word of warning. We are doing more with less. What used to be the thrashing of an deployed ops tempo is now routine day to day business. Strip out X-factor and pay only basic rate, people will walk because they will be able to earn far more at that rate for less hassle. It would also further erode pensions given that X-factor is pensionable. Current serving personnel will just not tolerate a 14.5% pay cut with all its implications. The only way I can see any sub radical move working was by introducing it under the new joiner offer so only those joining up on new joiner Ts&Cs are affected. But for all our virtue signalling on equality, such a move would seem to be a fairly selective application of equality principles. |
" people will walk because they will be able to earn far more at that rate for less hassle."
Actually I'm quite happy both earning and hassle--less!! :} As a wise man once said "life is too short for this ******* crap" |
[QUOTE=Melchett01;10175044]
Originally Posted by Ken Scott
(Post 10174489)
Indeed, I can almost see a scenario where under NEM, as you point out, a 5 year posting or maybe flexible working disqualifies you from the full X-factor. In effect, extending FTRS terms to NEM, where the only people qualifying for it being those who are happy to be buggered around by the system just because it can - because that’s the rationale behind the X-factor. But a word of warning. We are doing more with less. What used to be the thrashing of an deployed ops tempo is now routine day to day business. Strip out X-factor and pay only basic rate, people will walk because they will be able to earn far more at that rate for less hassle. It would also further erode pensions given that X-factor is pensionable. Current serving personnel will just not tolerate a 14.5% pay cut with all its implications. The only way I can see any sub radical move working was by introducing it under the new joiner offer so only those joining up on new joiner Ts&Cs are affected. But for all our virtue signalling on equality, such a move would seem to be a fairly selective application of equality principles. |
Now being slipped in (and having a greater proportional effect on the lower paid) is the prospect of the basic tax threshold being frozen from 2020 ; i.e.when inflation will probably be admitted to be ramping up again. In effect this will be another stealth tax, again hitting the lower income groups the hardest.
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Originally Posted by Haraka
(Post 10176076)
Now being slipped in (and having a greater proportional effect on the lower paid) is the prospect of the basic tax threshold being frozen from 2020 ; i.e.when inflation will probably be admitted to be ramping up again. In effect this will be another stealth tax, again hitting the lower income groups the hardest.
OAP |
Well, it certainly looks as though the signals from No10 are there to see. TMay quoted this week as refusing to confirm UKMil is a "Tier 1" military power. She also confirmed that UK Defence spending would remain at 2% GDP, not 2.??%, just 2%. Seems like it was just last year TMay pledged: " Ms May has announced a Conservative Government will both meet the two per cent target and “increase the defence budget by at least 0.5 per cent above inflation in every year of the new Parliament”.
The pledge matches the promise made by George Osborne in the Budget immediately after the 2015 election - extending it through to 2022." Quote from The Independent, 2017. Looks like Defence CUTS to me. OAP |
Onceapilot,
After the devastating effects on the UK economy of Brexit are fact as opposed to being brushed under the carpet as "Project Fear," you can guarantee pretty substantial cuts to the defence budget for years to come. |
JabbaTG12,
"Oh for heavens sake.... *eyeroll*" So, you would have been happy with a post head line that said "UK Minister calls for pay increase for servicewomen" then? Totally ignoring the existence of over 50% of the population, casual mysogyny personified. |
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