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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is talking about the UK being unable to access the Galileo signal, at either level of service? I think the issue is sovereign access to the encryption algorithms, the ability to "see inside" the black boxes and to build our own kit rather than buy from the EU. 3rd party access will cost, and obviously it won't be a sovereign capability, so if they decide to cut us off, we're out. But the service will still be available.
Might have the wrong end of the stick on that, but fairly sure I don't! |
You're not wrong. Norway and Switzerland have third-party access and the UK can too. The issue is that the UK does not want third-party access as it means no access to the encrypted PRS system and no industrial participation in the military aspects of the system.
The whole notion that we can just use GPS instead is a red herring, as no one is saying we can't use Galileo |
Originally Posted by Daysleeper
(Post 10173529)
the one they got cos they build the satellites in the UK and employ about 3,000 people in the space sector in England... talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
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Originally Posted by esa-aardvark
(Post 10173511)
Read up a bit on Galileo (and argued with some former mates). PRS service is full of could/should/might statements. Is the present spat just a storm in a teacup ?
OAP |
Sold some land once, in good old New Zealand. I had to pay for a DGPS boundary survey
of high accuracy (Centimetre level).what more does Galileo bring to the party ? |
Originally Posted by esa-aardvark
(Post 10173779)
Sold some land once, in good old New Zealand. I had to pay for a DGPS boundary survey
of high accuracy (Centimetre level).what more does Galileo bring to the party ? DGPS adds a layer of complexity not required by a system having innate accuracy. Probably a lot quicker too. Not sure even DGPS can return centimetre level accuracy without averaging a lot of data points. |
Originally Posted by VinRouge
(Post 10173790)
Not sure even DGPS can return centimetre level accuracy without averaging a lot of data points.
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That method still puts an atmospheric model between the receiver and the satellites, so the stationary accuracy is only as good as that provided by the model vs real conditions at that very moment. Access to both signals removes that guesswork. If you remove the standing-still-for-ages-at-a-set-altitude bit, say for a GPS bomb in flight, the accuracy of the survey pole becomes rather rubbish rather quickly. |
Sunday Telegraph reporting Galileo replacement system has been given the government go ahead, signed off by both PM and Chancellor. First £100m in funding for contracts has already been signed off by the treasury. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tem-rival-eus/ |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 10233496)
Sunday Telegraph reporting Galileo replacement system has been given the government go ahead, signed off by both PM and Chancellor. First £100m in funding for contracts has already been signed off by the treasury. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tem-rival-eus/ No doubt that pair have also included road usage tracking as well... |
One vanity project following another
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Well the EU lot are petulant about it. We offered to be part of it, they didn't want us. Who can be surprised at that?
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https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/1...antum_compass/ Brit boffins build quantum compass, say goodbye to GPS British boffins have developed a self-contained and tamper-proof compass that doesn't rely on GPS signals to provide a highly accurate measure of where it is in the world. The compass is a quantum accelerometer that is capable of measuring tiny shifts in supercooled atoms and so calculate how far and how fast the device has moved. Stuck on a boat, it would mean that the captain knows exactly where his ship was without having to rely on orbiting satellites. The system has been designed by boffins at Imperial College, London – who developed a laser system for cooling atoms down – and at photonics and quantum technology specialist M Squared - which developed another laser system to act as an "optical ruler." Their work has been funded by the UK's Ministry of Defence. Although GPS satellites are a modern marvel and are used by just about everyone to identify their precise location the fact is that the system is not perfect. A phone's GPS is accurate to roughly 15 feet, although military GPS devices can be accurate to centimeters...... But that's not why the Ministry of Defence is interested in a quantum compass: its concern is that the GPS system is vulnerable to attack or deliberate disruption. A GPS signal could be spoofed or blocked for instance. When you're thinking about nuclear submarines, it's usually best to consider the worst. "Pirates are now sophisticated enough to cause disruptions to ships, and lure them to rocks or take over and board them, by disrupting GPS," said Graeme Malcolm, the CEO of M Squared. “They can be an even bigger issue in areas of defense and security, where the resilience and security of cities, countries are impacted. This new device is an absolute reference that goes down to the level of atoms."..... The system could be of particular benefit to the UK's military after Europe made it clear that following Brexit, the UK would no longer gain secure access to Europe's new Galileo GPS system despite years of assisting in the system's development and deployment...... The prototype system shown off this week in London is about three-feet wide and high and it is incredibly expensive. Plus it can currently only measure in one plane. The boffins say they will soon be able to take measurements in three planes - making it an entirely independent super compass that can tell you where exactly it is at any point. But what is does represent is the first practical prototype of a theoretical piece of physics......... "This commercially viable quantum device, the accelerometer, will put the UK at the heart of the coming quantum age," said M Squared's Malcolm..... |
Sounds awesome ... and big and expensive, as noted. Not something to stick on the average dashboard!
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Not something to stick on the average dashboard! |
First generation INAS system https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7640ae390d.jpg Modern INAS system..... https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7dc3de7bac.jpg |
Originally Posted by Icare9
(Post 10157259)
Is there really a need for more Sat Nav systems?
Do they get their mapping from different satellites? Jon |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tellite-system .......On Friday, May officially announced that the UK would be pulling out of the system and made no mention of any attempt to recoup the UK’s investment. “The commission decided that we would be barred from having full aspects of the Galileo programme and so it is right for us to look for alternatives because it would be wrong to put our [armed] services relying on a system on which they couldn’t be sure of,” May told reporters in Buenos Aires while attending the G20 summit. “That would not be in our national interest.” She added: “So what is in our national interest is to say no, you haven’t allowed us full access, so we will develop an alternative, we will look at alternative options, we are doing that work but we will work with other international partners to do so as well.” Whitehall sources said the issue of the £1.2bn was yet to be finally resolved because the UK could still choose to be involved in commercial aspects of the system. “We will be discussing our past contributions to the financing of Galileo in the upcoming talks,” a senior UK official said. Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system to help guide military drones, run energy networks and other commercial uses. May said the UK had “world-class engineers and steadfast allies around the world. We are not short of options.” Gavin Williamson, the defence secretary, said the development of a new system would be an opportunity to draw on British skills and expertise in satellite technology. “Space poses a new and increasingly dangerous front for warfare and it is crucial to push ahead with plans for our own world-class, independent satellite system,” he said....... |
Totally ignoring the fact that the entire UK satellite design, engineering and manufacturing industry is foreign owned, mainly by EU nations.
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Very difficult to miniaturise supercooling ..................
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