Argentinean Submarine down - USN rescue team mobilised
 

Argentina missing submarine: Satellite signals detected - BBC News

Signals have been detected that are thought to have come from an Argentine submarine that went missing with 44 crew on board, officials say.

The defence ministry is now trying to trace the location of the seven failed satellite calls received on Saturday. Argentina has stepped up the search in the South Atlantic for the ARA San Juan submarine, with a Nasa research plane joining in.

The diesel-electric vessel disappeared 430km (267 miles) off the coast.

Britain and countries in the region have offered assistance. The US Navy is flying deep water rescue modules to Argentina to be deployed if the submarine is found on the sea floor.

The task of the rescuers has been complicated by heavy winds and high waves. The ARA San Juan was returning from a routine mission to Ushuaia, near the southern-most tip of South America, to its base at Mar del Plata, south of Buenos Aires. Its last contact with the navy command was on Wednesday morning.

An Argentine destroyer and two corvettes are conducting a search around the area of the sub's last known position off the south-eastern Valdez peninsula. But so far there are no clues about its whereabouts. It is thought that the submarine may have had communication difficulties caused by a power cut. Navy protocol dictates that a vessel should come to the surface if communication has been lost.

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Submarine rescue chamber and other assets being mobilized at @MCASMira

At least that proves someone was alive on Saturday. Fingers Crossed.

HMS Protector has joined the search.

Honestly I can't think of anything worse than being in a sub. on the bottom in trouble - even a mine would be better...................

And those Argentinean boats haven't been exactly maintained to top standards IIRC

What do you recall that makes you say that?

I think Conrad Waters Annual naval Review mentioned they were having problems in keeping any of their subs in service in either the 2016 or 2017 edition. Not at home so can't check.

Is something lost in the translation perhaps? You can't do a satellite call unless you put an antenna above the surface of the ocean right?

Is some sort of tethered emergency buoy deployed?

Some information on the U.S. Navy rescue systems deployed:

https://news.usni.org/2017/11/18/u-s...sing-submarine

A horrible way to go.

Despite the Argentinians being a past enemy of our country, I very much hope the sailors can be rescued.

ARA Santisima Trinidad?

http://en.mercopress.com/data/cache/...22-0165-14.jpg

The Sea...like the Air...is a very unforgiving thing.

It is good to see International cooperation and support of Search and hopefully Rescue Operations.

Time is of the essence of it's to be a rescue rather than recovery mission.
If the sub is unable to get to periscope depth they won't be able to change the air, essential on diesel boats.

Here's the tweet that everyone seems to base the 'seven satellite calls' report on:

https://twitter.com/OscarAguadCBA/st...44033245024256

I'm not too optimistic that this report will pan out to be actual distress calls as some news accounts speculate. :(

The Brits are indeed helping with the search :ok::

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...als/ar-BBFc2sl

I don't think there is any certainty that the attempted communication was from the San Juan. The signal transmissions did not complete so no information was transmitted or received.

I think I read that the Argentinian subs. were built in Germany 1983 or 1987 and San Juan is the youngest.

"The weather in the area of operations continues to be very difficult," Navy Admiral Gabriel Gonzalez said on Sunday.

"Right now, we have waves of six to eight metres high with west to southwest winds of 40 knots, and unfortunately it appears that these conditions will remain for the next 48 hours," he said.

Adml. Gonzalez added that the search for the vessel was further complicated by the fact that it has "very little visual area" from the surface, making it difficult to detect.

The Argentine navy says the missing diesel-electric submarine has enough oxygen, food and water to last at least two weeks.

Fingers firmly crossed for them. A horrible predicament to find yourself in.

As an aside, I hadn't realised HMS Protector had such basic aviation facilities (In comparison to her predecessors, who had full hangars)

Beeb latest:-

Specialist underwater rescue equipment has arrived in Argentina from the United States to help hunt for an Argentine submarine which vanished last Wednesday with 44 crew on board.
More boats and planes have also joined the search, which has been hampered by heavy winds and high waves.

The US Navy has sent a second ship with special tracking equipment and deep-sea rescue modules to join the search. Chile and the UK have sent extra aircraft to scour the area.

Argentine navy spokesman Capt Enrique Balbi said 11 boats and 10 planes from Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Peru, South Africa, Uruguay, the UK and the US were currently taking part in the search.

On Saturday, a Nasa research plane equipped with magnetometers, infrared cameras and other sensors that can detect a submerged submarines flew over the search area but did not detect the missing vessel.

Fingers crossed - hope there is a successful rescue

Depending on the depth of the sub on the bottom, when it is located, then the UK Submarine Parachute Assistance Group (SPAG) team could be dropped in there by C130 faster than most surface ships can reach the area. They used to practice in Jersey most years. A great bunch to know.

Argentina's navy says its ARA San Juan submarine, which has been missing since Wednesday, reported a mechanical breakdown in its last communication.

The submarine, with 44 crew on board, disappeared 430km (267 miles) off the Argentine coast and no trace of it has been found.

"The vessel surfaced and it reported a breakdown," naval commander Gabriel Galeazzi said. He did not give further details of the nature of the breakdown. This is the first time that an official has mentioned the sub encountering mechanical problems. However, the brother of a crew member had earlier told local media that in a message before communications were lost his sibling had mentioned that the vessel was having problems with its batteries.

Capt Galeazzi, who heads the naval base in Mar del Plata, south of Buenos Aires, said that mechanical problems were not uncommon and rarely posed a risk. The naval commander said that the submarine had been asked to cut short its patrol and go directly to Mar del Plata. According to local media, the captain of the ARA San Juan contacted the naval base again after reporting the mechanical problem. In the message, the sub's captain reportedly said he was heading towards Mar del Plata with all 44 crew members in perfect health.

Signals not from sub

The navy also announced on Monday that seven signals picked up at the weekend were not from the missing submarine's satellite phone.
The failed calls, lasting between four and 36 seconds, had been received on Saturday. They had raised hopes that the San Juan's crew members were alive.

US satellite company Iridium had earlier said that the submarine carried one of its satellite phones on board. But the company said that the seven signals did not come through its network and, on Monday, navy spokesman Enrique Balbi confirmed the attempted calls "did not come from the submarine's satellite phone".

Apparently two (unidentified) ships in the search area have now picked up sonar signals that could be the sound of tools banged on the hull.

Looking at charts of the search area, depth is 100-200m so a lot shallower than the likely crush-depth of the hull.

Not impossibly deep for technical divers, but would likely require a ROV rescue. The USN have two in the area.

No mention of the batteries, could they could last for 2 weeks on the bottom.

Isn't the limitation CO2 scrubbing rather than O2 levels?

I well remember that was the problem when the two Rogers were stuck in the putty on the seabed of the Irish Sea back in the 1970s. To this day Roger Chapman doesn't like to sit down, even at business meetings. He prefers to stand up. If you've seen the inside dimensions of that sub you'll understand why!

Edited to add:
Wasn't that also the most pressing limitation on the Apollo 13 recovery too? That and the unholy cold of course.

Hello all,

We are very worried here and, in the other hand, we are very grateful for so much help Argentina received in such short time.

More or less, the submarine has a week of oxygen (including spare oxygen, oxygen candles and so on). ARA San Juan is probably the best unit of the Argentine Navy. The submarine was accepted in 2014, after a big refit.

Personally, I have big faith in some sonar contact from two surface units. Nothing official about it, but I want (or I need) to believe.

Regards to all,

True definition of madness, jump out of perfectly serviceable aircraft, land in water and then try to effect a submarine rescue. Seriously though best of luck chaps and stay safe.

Let's hope this has a successful outcome.

I can't think of anything worse than sitting on the sea bed in a cold steel hull, hoping and praying to be rescued.

I think politicians of countries that lose subs should immediately put into a cold metal can with no air until they approve the mobilization of anyone with the abilities to perform the rescue. Waiting for political reasons just turns out really bad later on.

I think some crew could have been rescued from the Kursk if feet hadn't been dragged.

A friend of mine was the dive master on the Kursk recovery he told me 2 things 1 they would have saved many if they had been mobilised earlier and 2 they never got paid.

NASA NP-3D joins in
 

Think this is one of the Wallops Island a/c joining in the search.

https://arstechnica.co.uk/informatio...tine-navy-sub/

Actually the fundamental problem on Apollo 13 was lack of (electrical) power. Everything else was a direct or indirect result of the fact that Apollo 13 had lost the ability to generate electricity and had to rely on the LEM batteries. Even the CO2 problem was because the Command Module had lost electrical power (aside from the batteries which they need to save for re-entry), and the lithium hydroxide canisters from the Command Module didn't fit the LEM (requiring the Rube Goldberg setup to use square canisters in a system designed for round ones).
It wouldn't surprise me if this sub is faced with the same problem - they can survive until the battery's give out.
Here's hoping they can be rescued before then.

Beeb this morning:-

Argentina's navy says its ARA San Juan submarine, which has been missing since Wednesday, reported a mechanical breakdown in its last communication.

"The vessel surfaced and it reported a breakdown," naval commander Gabriel Galeazzi said.

Argentina's navy said a "noise" picked up by sonar on Monday during the search did not come from the vessel. It is the second false alarm in the hunt for the submarine.

Capt Galeazzi, who heads the naval base in Mar del Plata, south of Buenos Aires, said that the fault reported earlier related to a "short circuit" in the sub's batteries.
The brother of a crew member earlier told local media that in a message before communications were lost his sibling had mentioned that the vessel was having problems with its batteries. This is the first time that an official has mentioned the sub encountering mechanical problems. However Capt Galeazzi said that mechanical problems were not uncommon and rarely posed a risk."A warship has a lot of backup systems, to allow it to move from one to another when there is a breakdown," he said.

The naval commander said that the submarine had been asked to cut short its mission, which was originally due to last until Monday, and go directly to Mar del Plata.
According to local media, the captain of the ARA San Juan contacted the naval base again after reporting the mechanical problem. In the message, he reportedly said the sub was heading towards Mar del Plata with all 44 crew members in perfect health.

Signals not from sub

The navy also announced on Monday that seven signals picked up at the weekend were not from the missing submarine's satellite phone.
The failed calls, lasting between four and 36 seconds, had been received on Saturday. They had raised hopes that the crew members were alive.

A huge search and rescue operation is continuing in the South Atlantic.

Specialist underwater rescue equipment has arrived in Argentina from the United States and more boats and planes have also joined the search, which has been hampered by heavy winds and high waves.

Kudos to your mate for having an amazing profession, but in this instance he is spinning a yarn, or just misinformed. Only 23 (out of a crew of 118) survived the initial explosion, and most Western sources believe only for few hours. This is all well-documented now.

If that short circuit became a genuine Battery fire...with the resulting problems of heat, smoke, and poisonous gases....driving the crew topside....in those seas and temperatures?

If it was/is on the surface...why is it so hard to find?

If it had a battery issue....why would it submerge having been on the surface and reporting the problem?

Lots of questions....hopefully the crew can be found safe....but each hour lessens the chances of that happening.

The nautical term for this is: sink.

It's not usually intentional, y'know.

Rough weather, battery problems, hatches open to vent sub? We might never know, my hat goes off to people in these situations, you would think in this day an age they would have proper diving gear for each crew member on subs.

Dunno about the sub in question, but RN subs provide an escape suit for every crewman.

I understand that, but they were a straight up to the surface job by, surely a full sub Aqua set up would allow greater freedom of escape.

The Argentine Navy bought new escape suits for all its boats a couple of years ago.

Still praying for good news. Or confirmation of some rumours.

Besides that, is really comforting people for all over the world is helping in the search or, at least, giving best wishes and praying. Thanks, really.

Regards,

What would you do with it that you couldn't with an escape suit? Pop up to the surface, have a quick look round to see if you can spot any ships, and then swim back down to give everyone a status update? Unless you're next to the beach, hard to envisage a scenario where you'd leave the submarine without knowing there was someone on the surface to pick you up.

Although (some) submarines do have the capability to deploy and recover divers at depth, the systems required to do so are a lot more complex than a basic escape trunk.

Best hopes and wishes for a successful outcome....

I think it's great that you Brits support them. Classy. Thumbs up!