Qatar sign up for 24 Typhoons
 

Defence Secretary strengthens UK-Qatar Defence relationship

During a visit to the Gulf state today, Sir Michael Fallon and his Qatari counterpart, Khalid bin Mohammed al Attiyah, signed a Statement of Intent concerning Qatar’s proposed purchase of 24 Typhoon aircraft........

Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon said:

After a number of years of negotiations between our two countries, I am delighted to have been able to sign today with Qatar’s Defence Minister, this Statement of Intent on the purchase of 24 Typhoon aircraft by Qatar.

This will be the first major defence contract with Qatar, one of the UK’s strategic partners. This is an important moment in our defence relationship and the basis for even closer defence co-operation between our two countries. We also hope that this will help enhance security within the region across all Gulf allies and enhance Typhoon interoperability across the GCC.

The security of the GCC, of all Gulf countries, is critical to the UK’s own security.....

Isn't only a few weeks ago that Qatar was labelled "terrorist", at least by other Arab states. How will this deal affect the UK's dealings with those countries?

Yup, surprised BAe would risk upsetting the Saudi cash cow.

We need the money...................

The Saudis aren't going to risk their credit line at the Playboy Club.

USA signed an arms deal worth billions with them the other month, do they need the money?

It means the Typhoon production line stays open longer: we need to keep hold of manufacturing expertise. Good news.

Curious buying Typhoons after also buying Rafales and F15s

they're not buying aircraft, they're buying friends and insurance policies.....

"USA signed an arms deal worth billions with them the other month, do they need the money?"

yes TBH -every arms industry is desperate for sales right now...............

in fact if you are talking to the likes of India you are beyond desperate.................

A very shrewd observation, Mr O.

They're not buying anything yet, just stating an intent to do so in the future.

How firm is that deal, compared to the situation where the UK agreed to buy carriers, that were (almost) as expensive to cancel, as they were to purchase?

If Qatar fails to buy the 24 Typhoons, how much will they pay in penalty costs?

The cover doesn't start till the premium is paid...

Hardly - Qatar made it clear that they needed 72 new fighters to replace their 12 Mirage 2000s, and that they hoped to get three different types from three different suppliers.

And training opportunities, doctrine, exchange officers, etc.

Jesus, how good was the Mirage 2000!?

How good was the Iranian air force after its years of war with Iraq?

72?
 

I can recall 24 to 36 aircraft stated by Qatar back in 2011. Not sure when and why it went to 72. And what does it tell us that it was Rafale first? Personally, I think this surprised nearly everyone.

Who is BAe and what do they have to do with the Typhoon??

PDR

Nothing like dealing with bloddy w*gs eh Harry ?

Didn't know if the numbers of F15s ordered have been revealed, but the FMS request was for up to 72 - I'd assumed they were going for 24 Rafales and 48 F15s.

Bit like the Saudis in the 80/90ss, buying F15s and Tornados. If one supplier objects politically to your use of aircraft, just use the ones from another supplier.

Industrial/commercial Lead on the Qatar Typhoon campaign, and prime contractor on the Saudi Typhoon programme - which was a Government to Government deal. This was a BAE campaign, not an EF GmbH campaign.

Typhoon deal strengthens UK-Qatar Defence relationship

https://www.facebook.com/aerospacean...59920344214126

Major news sources judge Qatari Typhoon deal surprising – Aerospace Analysis & Insight was expecting it all along!

https://www.facebook.com/aerospacean...59722900900537

24 Rafales plus 12 options
36 F-15QAs plus 36 options - this was the big surprise - as it wasn't 24 again
24 Typhoons plus undisclosed options

That's 84 aircraft, when the total requirement was originally 72. Maybe they think they need 7 Squadrons, not just six?

I guess it is surprising as there is absolutely no operational value in fielding three almost identical (at least in terms of role) fighter types, and neither is there any industrial value for Qatar.

Being Middle East focused Jackonicko, I guess you have a better insight into the vagaries of their thinking.

Mind you, they will be able to tell us which one is actually best.

Qatar's industrial capabilities are very limited, but three lots of offsets/participation, etc. will be better than one.

Three different centres of decision making if Qatar does anything to provoke sanctions.

Three lots of goodwill, invitations for exercise participation and training courses.

And there are some subtle but important capability differences between the three aircraft - Rafale with its heavy precision stand off weapons capability and recce pod. F-15QA with a great payload/range capability. Typhoon may bring with it some Mission Data capabilities for the QEAF, as well as Meteor, Brimstone and Storm Shadow.

Then why stop at three? Why not order some Sukhois/MiGs and get the Russians onside also?

You don't need to buy a new fighter type to get goodwill and training opportunities. Countries train with other countries because it is in their strategic interests to do so, and the US/UK/France will train with Qatar so long as it is in their interests to do so. Israel doesn't get invited to Red Flag because it flies Falcons and Eagles.

If goodwill and training opportunities are the objective (and, as you say, Qatar needs to buy another country's kit to get these), then surely buy something that makes operational sense - like a frigate or some tanks. Why buy a third and superfluous fighter type?

Each of these aircraft have essentially the same roles and the same capabilities, albeit with some minor differences as to what weapons types they currently carry. If a country wants a particular weapons capability, then it makes more sense to pay for the OEM to integrate it onto an aircraft they already have or have selected, rather than to go out and buy an entirely new type again.

That said, under current planning the Typhoon is to get the same heavy precision stand off weapons capability and recce pod capability as the Rafale now has, so again why buy them both? And what does Qatar need with the F-15QA's increased range (and if range is important, they have MRTTs to extend the range of the Rafale or Typhoon).

And the argument that money is no object to Qatar doesn't really hold either, as they could use that money to pay for the weapons integration rather than buy an unnecessary third fighter type.

There is nothing logical about Qatar's decision to field three fighter types.

Their perception is that the marginal extra cost is outweighed by the advantages.

That's logical.

To them.

And it was logical to Saudi when they bought F-15SA and Typhoon….. and Kuwait when they opted for Super Hornet and Typhoon. And arguably to Oman, too…..

But not F-15SA and Typhoon and Rafale.

But not Super Hornet and Typhoon and Rafale.

But not Typhoon and F-16 and Rafale/Eagle/Super Hornet

There is a reason all of these countries you cite have not procured three overlapping fighter types - it makes no sense to do so.

Maybe they want an insight into the three main types likely to be deployed against them by their neighbours

The world's first all-Aggressor air force. Seems legit.

Wrong. The Israeli AF has been invited to and flown both it's F-15s and F-16s in several Red Flag exercises...

-RP

Thanks Rhino, I know that. My point was that Israel is not invited to Red Flag because it flies F-15s and F-16s. It is invited because it is in the interests of the US to do so.

Qatar exercise their option to purchase a further 12 Rafale, taking the total on order to 36.

https://globenewswire.com/news-relea...12-Rafale.html

I heard the 24 Typhoons for Qatar are going to come from Approved Used stock (presumably ex-RAF), after an 'upgrade' and re-paint presumably.

With a population of only 3M, are they going to find enough competent pilots?

Of course. They'll employ the likes of me.

Pure AD then?

BWOS are stating they will be new build, therefore keeping the production line trickling until 2024. Presumably they will also have the AESA radar also.

Does anyone know which helmet(s) the pilots will be using for the jet?