Aircrew Armed ?
 

So I watched 'Blackhawk down' last night and during the scene where Mike Durant defends himself with an MP5 I wondered if RAF aircrew and pilots are armed in the event they are shot down and if so what with? L22 Carbine?

OpSec IMO. but no doubt others will disagree.

Used to be an old Browning 9mm SLP, i think they have now switched to the Glock 17 or 19 9mm pistol.

IIRC In 'Tornado Down' so GW1 of course JN and JP talked about pistols when they were approached by Iraqi troops?

History: I recall reading a book about the outbreak of war and the aircrew all being issued with Webleys. The statistic escapes me but there were quite a few shots heard around the Mess that evening and one pilot was hospitalised with a gunshot wound.
Today: Carbine, Glock and a vicious fighting knife that would see me arrested if out and about with it in the UK.

In 1943 in Burma they gave me a .38 Smith & Wesson, and 18 rounds: "That's the lot", they said, "No more - sell your life dearly".

Thanks a lot !

If i remember correctly from Tornado Down, they talked about the pistol being in the ejection survival kit.

I recall during GW1, one of the RSAF aircrew playing with his automatic pistol in the cockpit; he dropped the magazine onto the floor, where several rounds fell out....

On another occasion, while checking his pistol in the ops room, another aircrew member fired a round into the ceiling....

Sounds dangerous this war stuff... ;)

Danny. It progressed. In Aden '67 we had the same, but only twelve rounds Defence cuts? Mind you, if you insisted, it was possible to draw a Stirling SMG with, IIRC, two magazines of twenty rounds each. I guess it kept the enemy's heads down until the rescue chopper came.

After the Browning came the Walter, 7.62? Fewer rounds than the Browning. Plenty of practise, annual shoot with very few rounds. Group and then snap, jammed rounds drill and magazine change.

What was never discussed was tactical use and ROE. We always fired two handed from standing position at the charging enemy just 15 metres away. If in the middle of nowhere faced by one man I might have been tempted. Two men - not a chance.

If an unarmed person discovered you, could you shoot him? If you did and were then caught I don't think you would get a fair trial. If he was armed I don't think his mates would have been that happy either.

I've got a feeling that Apache crews carry the Glock and also an SA80 in the aircraft........

Arc

When I was an AAC pilot we were issued with a Browning 9mm automatic and 2 full magazines. But that was a long time ago.

NEO

Again thats what i recall the descision of the 'Tornado Down' aircrew decided when several Republican Guard were advancing on them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpiaP_yaIg
From about 11:30 they discuss that.

Crewmen were routinely armed with a 9mm pistol and 10 rounds; and an SLR with 20. But only on a particular det/posting.

CG

In my time there, pilots got 3 full mags (of 10 rounds each?) for the 9mm and two of 30 each for the SA80.

Crewmen were obviously deemed better shots (or more expendable).... :p

(If you discount the box of 200 7.62 mm for the machine gun, that is).

Goodness knows how far over the coals you'd get dragged for actually firing any of them - losing a round was almost a hanging offence.

Slight thread drift, but I remember in the 70's on exercises and guard duty we were armed with a pick-axe handle.

Saintsman,

Same thing ("pick-helves") in 1941. All the rifles were needed for the Home Guard. Should've thought the supply position was a bit better thirty years later. Perhaps someone had negotiated a crafty contract for pick-helves !

I wonder what happened to them all.

Danny.

We had a jaapie copilot on Victors who had a (UK) licensed Mauser. On overseas trips he flew with it stored in a kind of 'speed rig' holster under his left armpit under his flying suit. He left in the aircraft on overnight stops.

When I was on the kipper fleet I often flew with a Brownie and a magazine...Playboy mostly, sometimes Penthouse.