Danny42C wrote: My late father served in the Royal Bombay Sapper and Miners. His bearer made him a kukri out of a leaf spring from a written-off Chevrolet(?) 6x6 truck...

The leather case has rotted badly and I've lost the skinning knife and steel, but still have the villainous kukri hidden safely out of sight. I last used it a few years ago when hacking down some ivy; I didn't need to remember the tradition of having to draw blood once the kukri was out of its sheath, as it did that quite happily itself, due to my carelessness!

lsd. Was the original plan to bring it back to UK with your personal effects?

ref the .38. I reckon you would do more damage throwing it at the enemy.

The .38/200 round has the distinctive characteristic of enabling you to see the black trace as it makes it's leisurely way down-range. Who ever though that was a suitable personal defence weapon?

We drew pistols at Gan, took all that they had. It was a mixed bag of S&W and Colt and may be others.

On the missions where I flew armed, I carried a .45ACP with one mag loaded, one in a flight suit pocket, and one in the survival vest "extra stuff" pouch.

AAC pilots are flying soldiers, with basic infantry training at minimum, and operating in a dedicated aerial role in close proximity to ground troops, so usually fly in kit similar to the ground troops- i.e. DPM, combat boots, side arm, webbing and gat. They would be expected to join the fight on the ground if necessary (as happened in Gan). RAF SH pilots are usually insertion/evacuation, so fly in grow bags usually just with a side-arm for last resort, relying on door/tailgunners and ground support for defence. RN/RM jungly SH pilots fall somewhere between - I've seen them carrying SA80s in the cockpit.

I don't know about FJ pilots. We always suspected they just were sipping their gin and tonics.

It's all a bit role specific, so no definite answer.

In Borneo we were issued with a Smith & Wesson with twelve rounds and this was dated 1947 or thereabouts. One pilot shot himself in the foot when his second shot pushed the first one out of the barrel onto his toe.

I found a dodge using rotor blade tape where I could use 9mm. ammunition. Far more accurate and stacks of disposable ammo from the Ghurkhas.

In 2 TAF in the late fifties the only guns I was familiar with were 4x30mm Adens. No thought of personal weapons. Where would you stow one in a Hunter or Swift? Previously at Suez I had contemplated putting one in my growbag pocket but it certainly wouldn't have survived an ejection.

Hi Herod,
Seemed like a reasonable idea when flogging around upcountry but by the time we ended up on base IS patrols I felt any problems would have been sorted by guys a lot better qualified than me (take your choice from Navy, Army or RAF - they were all there aching to get stuck in I thought), so turned my thoughts to getting a fridge or air conditioning unit shipped north but was unsuccessful as the supply wing had got wise towards the end of that debacle....
ah......happy days when common sense was a rare commodity

When we did the short jungle survival course the PJI had a whole list of toys to add to our kit, condoms, tweezers two name two and to buy a $20 pistol. Not sure if that was USD or Malayan.

When tested the .38/200 was assessed by the British as being the equivalent of the .455 in terms of terminal ballistics. It was introduced in the belief that recruits were unable to handle the recoil impulse of the .455 Webley and required excessive training, even though the recoil impulse of that round is lower than its contemporary the .45ACP, and quite honestly the Colt round is a pussycat to shoot in anything other than a +p loading. Concerns over the lead being too soft and therefore a potential Hague issue resulted in a lighter 178 grain jacketed bullet that was far less effective than the original.

I have always thought that giving aircrew anything other than revolvers is a bad idea. A good 3" .38 Special would be my choice, double action only with a concealed hammer. If it absolutely had to be a semi-auto I would go for a traditional DA/SA in Condition 3, with caliber of choice.

I liked the idea of a personal firearm but there was a problem. Where to wear or stow it? Depending on choice would you prefer to be uncomfortable by wearing it or risk the thing getting in the way? In the Sioux days in the Middle East there was no problem, but in Northern Ireland when wearing body armour it was a different story in Scouts and later the Gazelle.

Better to use the big gun in the air, than have to rely on the little gun on the ground.

I read that in Aden in the 1950s, No 8 Sqn developed a drop tank for the Venom that could be dropped to downed aircrew. It included a .303 rifle and ammunition.

I knew a chap who served in Vietnam - he was a karate expert. He was downed and preferred his hands to his gun. I believe from others that he killed a couple of the opposition.
Wasn't the original scorpion developed for Warsaw pact pilots to carry?

Trim stab
 

[QUOTEThey would be expected to join the fight on the ground if necessary (as happened in Gan). [/QUOTE]

What happened at Gan?

Aaron.

I'm sure I've posted this image of my .38/200 barrels somewhere here in the past ...

What happened at Gan?

Aaron.[/QUOTE]

Big kick-off in the NAAFI?:E

CG

CG, no, Blue Lagoon when the trooper stopped over.

In '64 there were fears that the Indonesians might send their Sverdlov cruiser to harass and invade. A squad of RAF Regt was despatched from Catterick at no notice, they left notes for wives, gone to Far East don't know for how long.

They made a moving sight parading every day, pale blue PT shirts. Navy PT shorts, black socks, boots and putties but no pith helmets, and armed with .303s. A brave sight.

As indeed their Glider Pilot Regiment forebears did at Arnhem. More up to date, and on topic, IIRC there was a brief period after the 1988 Silverbridge ambush that AAC crews in South Armagh were armed with HK53s.

EG

Ah Ha, at Kuantan in 1965, I was issued with an Orlikon 20mm cannon - one of only six deployed on the station (all in a straight line beside the runway).

I was trained on this thing and thought good stuff - come on Indonesian air force - make my day!!!!

Then we had an exercise and I was to discover that there were only five 'pans' of ammo and for this exercise my gun and crew weren't 'served'.

Old Duffer

OD, I think if we delved too deeply into the RAF or Army in those days we would have found the tail well and truely docked. We give the RAF respirators and tin hats and a gun each, the whole issh was destined to disappear in a flash of light.

What happened at Gan?

Aaron.[/QUOTE]


Read Ed Macey MC's book.

TS, I presume that was code for (AF)GAN,

OP, these days landing somewhere you weren't planning to land at can be just a big a headache.

YellowTom
OP, these days landing somewhere you weren't planning to land at can be just a big a headache.

It was ever thus.

Read Ed Macey MC's book.[/QUOTE]


Ah, not Gan then......

Royal Air Force Gan - Remembered


Didn't 'Macey' make an unathorised mod to his L22 (or use it without the front grip as it needed to be removed to get it in the Apache)?

And including of course the high percentage of RAF glider pilots at Arnhem.......

(not sure how many - will look it up)

[Edited to add:]

Apologies to the GPR - getting my MARKET GARDEN (Arnhem) mixed up with my VARSITY (Rhine crossing) - I really should know better!

GPR suffered 90% cas at Arnhem, so 1500 :eek: RAF pilots were drafted in for the Rhine crossing. In that Operation, 60% of the glider aircrew kia were RAF ..........

...... and they did their bit: (quoted from the Assault Glider Trust website. )

A walk around the Oosterbeek war cemetary is quite sobering.

The 60% casualty rate on Varsity is directly representative of the percentage of glider pilots taking part who were RAF (one of whom was my late Father).

I always thought that aircrew pistols were issued so that the downed aircrew could do the decent thing prior to capture, and save the Queen's secrets by a self-applied coup de grace.

A full magazine is supplied because the accuracy of aircrew pistols degrades rapidly with range.