Gnd.....
If the there is not enough room for the Crewman to move safely about the cabin then how can he do his job? I'm exasperated by your response!!

But there is. The seats are removable. The number of times I've ever seen a personnel transport and external load operation combined is one ... though I imagine in some places it is more common. FWIW, if take all of the seats out of the Black Hawk, you can fit more people into it. :} Doing so of course removes the crash worthy seating feature, and it sure looks more like the old Viet Nam Huey set up, but I know of at least one op where that was done. I also know of one country where it was a common practice: Colombia (but that's a few years back).

But there is. The seats are removable.

Of course we know that is possible, but given this 'elf and safety' sh@t of the modern world you cannot plan to do that. Despite that, if you get rid of the seats you invite even more cabin chaos; soldiers, weapons, kit, rations all over the place - bloody chaos! Let's face it the Blackhawk cabin is not good for the way the Brits work...and we are experienced operators I can tell you...

I can never resist the 'there's an 'L' of a difference' joke

.and we are experienced operators I can tell you...


Nowhere near as experienced as the Americans, mind. They seem to be able to operate the Black Hawk just fine, so why should we find it so difficult?

Let's face it the Blackhawk cabin is not good for the way the Brits work..

So the solution would be to change the way we work, no? I assume that we are looking to achieve roughly the same effects as the Americans, so why not go about achieveing them in roughly the same manner?

If the Blackhawk is too small, how about the S92?

(dives and runs for cover)

So replace Puma (entered production in 1968) with Black Hawk (entered service in 1976ish)?

Great forward planning there chaps...

No one is suggesting that. In the context of this conversation Black Hawk is only being mentioned in relation to the transverse seating arrangement it shares with the FVL, which could replace the Puma.

The Puma: 330,332.332L2 and 225 are dead.

The project department in Airbus , or whatever it will be called, will be working overtime to design a medium lift helicopter to replace them. They final plan will come out in a couple of years and then we will have to see how the political framwork works out between the UK and the EU.

Should Wastelands get involved then you can expect whatever they have dreamt up.

Why not Merlin? Nice big powerful bird. What's the down side?

The Chinook is going strong....and has been updated several times over the past fifty Years.

The Blackhawk likewise has grown tremendously in its capability....and is operation all around the World in large numbers.

"Why not Merlin? Nice big powerful bird. What's the down side?"

Remove the word "powerful" and you have your answer......

If we look forward, this conversation will go somewhere. According to my alphabet, M is further on that A and the M Blackhawk is quite good. Saying that a 1976 ac isn't OK, is like saying Ford are no good - they improved (sort of!), modernise and stay alive. Forgive me if I am wrong but aren't we just into Puma 2?

Embrace change and try to get something to work, not just put hurdles in the way, that is what the MAA are for. Can you still believe that we are so tied up in how not to let PEDs into our aircraft yet ANO Jo can do pretty much what he (or she) wants!!!

Lets get real and actually do the best with the little beans we have; PU, Wc, Gz, possibly Me are all destined to vanish in my opinion and the 3 will be left as stated before.

Gnd, completely agree that Pu, Wc and Gz are all dead options longer term. The golden ticket right now would possibly be an aircraft with the size and disposable payload of the latest Blackhawk but a cabin more akin to the Puma and stability/ride comfort of a Merlin. But I don't think that exists now. Nothing out there right now will get us a step-change in performance/capability but everything we have will or could be extended until 2030+ when there are likely to be options that revolutionise the medium lift role.

It's not an easy sell to put up with mediocre medium lift BH in the interim, but we quite frankly don't have the cash to buy and train a force to operate Blackhawks/NH90/AW139 etc as a nice way to tide us over until the next tech comes along. I therefore suspect that what we have now will be with us for a long time just yet...

AP, I don't think we have the cash to keep them going! I am thinking we will bin them, cut our long-term losses and get extant tech.

The Wc and Pu are impotent, no role and just scrabble to get seen or heard. The Gz is becoming untenable in this risk adverse world leaving the scrapping option the only safe and viable one out there. We will see if there is a niche option, I have been wrong before!!