Vampire rips up runway...
 

At the 'Radials and Trainers' event at Halfpenny Green...

Fascinating, answers Cold War proposal to use disused airfields for bare base ops and justification for not doing it.

Think that's impressive ...at an airshow in Quebec Canada years ago ..you should see what two F-4 phantoms with afterburners can do. It was a "Holy crap" moment.
Nice display however.

It's tempting to suggest that this should be in the "Jet Blast" forum! ;)

I wonder if there was any damage to the Vampire's twin tailbooms, tailplane and elevator?

Spectacular. I'll guess Vamps have not used that runway before OR it has become seriously crap over the years? Probably any debris has missed the aircraft structure.

Having only 264 hours in a dual seat Vampire in RAAF then RAN FAA (under training/fleet support) I knew well the dangers of just taxiing on macadam/tar and DO NOT STOP, which was difficult sometimes when the wheel brakes would run out of PUFF.

The RAAF Vamps had hydraulic foot pedal brakes whilst the RAN FAA Vamps had compressed air managed by a hand lever on the control column - both differential brakes. Over using these systems meant one could have NO BRAKES so one had to stop - NEVER stop on the tar because the exhaust would melt it. Not much concrete in those years so judiciously managing the brake pressure was a real art. I'm hoping those Vamps will operate on better runways in future. :}

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Thats not a Vampire "tarmac puddling due to jet efflux angle" thing,

its an 'unsuitable, unserviceable runway surface' thing !!

I think he was very lucky not to re-ingest the initial small pieces dislodged on backtrack.
Could have been a very nasty accident on take-off.

lsh

What state was the runway surface before the Vampire took off? Due to the minimal time on the runway I suspect that the surface was already breaking up, the Vampire merely helped it on its way?

This is the same runway on approach and it looks in poor condition.



One wonders why the FISO allowed the aircraft to continue when the first bit of tarmac lifted on backtrack. Especially when the airport was reporting:

I wonder who will pay for the repairs to the runway? :eek:

LJ

I think I understand why, but how was that allowed to happen?

Judging by the narrow marked areas compared against the original runway dimensions it seems that all the runways are in a poor state.

Vampires were ideal snow blowers during the winters we used to have. Keep the engine at around 9,000 rpm and let the tractor shove you around so that the jet efflux did the necessary. Four cleared half of Oakingtons 2,000 ft. runway in a morning, enough for one sweeping Vampire to disconnect from the tractor, take off and do a circuit and land.

After that it was two Dewents attached to a fuel bowser. It was not unknown for an untrained MT driver to overcook the throttles and sent the entire ensemble backwards through the bundu.

Halfpenny Gren is no stranger to jet efflux damage tho it is an old story now - a Harrier lifted large parts of a runway there in the mid '80s at a show.

Was there a danger of damage to the tail or does the efflux strike sufficiently aft to avoid that?

The way he goosed the power while 90' off runway heading made me thing we were in for a spectacular "off" into the weeds too. Looked hairy.

Santa Pod had a Derwent on a Bedford chassis with a downward facing cowl around the exhaust a la tarmac stripper for drying the strip - it was said that if you overdid the power the back wheels would levitate easily.

Nice white RAF issue gloves Leon - the other bloke clearly doesn't have a mate in SES:)

'peterperfect' I do not argue with state of runway being prime cause - see my first sentence above. Already had info about the taxiing perils for a Vampire so just posted that. Then engine efflux is close to the ground and angled that way to avoid toasting the tailplane. Here is a little something from the RAAF Mk.35A Vampire Manual:
Somewhere online or on this forum there is a photo of the Vamp Snow Blower in use....

Several VAMP snow blower stories on this thread:

Snow Clearance [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

https://www.flickr.com/photos/130782...6/18254597496/

How sad...

Thanks for posting that- had never seen that- like how it notes Meteor T.7 (modified)- it sure was.


Was is sad- or the fastest snow blower ever?

A better fate than being a Fire Training carcass ... at least that Meatbox gave the maximum 'return of service' ;)

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Had a couple of hundred hours on the Vampire III&V single seaters on 20 Sqn (Valley '50-'51) and (cadged) hours on 608 (Auxiliary) Sqn ('51-'52). Know nothing about the T-11 (which only entered service in Jan '52 (Wiki). 608 never had a T-11, but a Meteor T-7 for I/F and ratings.

The only time we worried about the tarmac was after a "wet start". Pushing the tail down would empty the tail pipe of unburned fuel into a pool (on the tarmac ?) in which the aircraft was now sitting. We pushed it back clear of the fuel and lit the blue paper. This produced a big "whoomph !" and a fearsome 50-foot flame out of the back for a second or two, after which we taxied off and paid no further heed to the surface below.

After shut-down, the tailpipe was very hot (and not at all smelly, as the heat had burned off any last drops of Avtur). It was commonpace for an erk, who'd bought a cold meat pie from the NAAFI van on a cold morning, to park it inside the pipe to warm up. So our "walk round" always included a look for a pie up the pipe !

Lovely little aircraft to handle, ground vis phenomenal, believe it made a good trainer. Perhaps the T-11 had the tail aimed closer to the ground than the monopostos ?

Danny.

Not such a good view out of the cockpit as the nose was higher. A single fuel gauge instead of the collection behind the control stick and a worse rate of roll because the wings were wider and restricted ailerons.

When we had a wet start they would pull the aircraft forward and throw a big asbestos blanket over the elevator assembly so as to protect the tailplane from the inevitable conflagration.

Just as well that they cancelled the F-35B vertical landing demo that was next on the show schedule...

It would appear that the CAA are investigating it:

https://www.facebook.com/midlandstod...5223905789761/

Is it me, or was the pilot a bit nifty with the "Gear UP"?

What an amazing photo collection. I spent most of the morning going through it.

We used the asbestos blanket as SOP for all starting of transiting Vampires & Venoms at Istres/Orange c.1957/8

'MPN11' getting your gear up smartly and staying low was SOP for VAMPs with the Martin-Baker Mk3 ejection seat which had a minimum height of 200 feet and airspeed of 120 knots for the use of. The attached EFATO graphic is from the RAAF Vampire Mk.35A Flight Manual. I'll attach a video of an RAAF MACCHI MB326H taking off 'uphill' on Runway 03 at NAS Nowra showing such a take off (albeit the aircraft has a MB Mk.4 seat).

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IF the Vampire was pointing more or less into the wind for engine start on the line then a wet start was uncommon for the RAN / RAAF dual seat Vamps. There is at least one video of a wettie at Temora online - I'll go look.... The first video is just an ordinary Goblin engine start with the CLACKERs working overtime & anotherie. The third video start up goes for extra time hence extra flames for the use of various.

Bit academic when the seats are inoperative...

The runways have been patched (and reduced in size) for years. Lack of investment... And as the place is now owned by a property developer...

'academic' until the turnback diagram needed. People talk about NavAv arrests & cats as having the "most fun with yur pants on". For a middie doing low Vampy takeoffs was the equivalent until one got to do the adult stuff.

EFATO turn back landing is much easier with 'cross runways'. Vampire low take offs for zoom into such a landing was practised a lot, even to a touch and go. Macchis continued the tradition with successful 1982 NAS Nowra turn back to a hot brake full stop after an 'eagle' (VC-724 line book entry says 'sea eagle' but likely it was a "wedgie" wedge tail eagle however that is just my guess, I do not have a lot of details) stopped the engine. Macchi was loaded with a passenger plus practice bombs and a minigun pod at the time.

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The Vampire 'sample turnback technique' (right hand side) of graphic above repeated for comprehension - now both.

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Variations of Vampire Cockpit Dials
 

Probably many are familiar with the front panel cockpit instrument variations in the Vampire family (single seat to dual). The RAN FAA had a motley collection with the older Vamps having two artificial horizons artfully placed exactly behind one's ham fist on the antique control column. The RAAF & later RAN FAA Vamps had a single A/H in the middle of the front panel - easily seen by all concerned. :}

Did I mention the problem of jumping from a Vamp into a Sea Venom or vice versa? Joy upon Joy: the high pressure fuel cock in the Vampire was almost in the same place as the speedbrake lever in the Sea Venom. Handily the RAAF had us trained to PUNCH the speedbrakes out in the Vampire and as long as we did that we were not likely to CLOSE the high pressure fuel cock (as some hapless did - usually at top of instrument descent so time for a relight) instead of speedbrakes out. [I recall - after a long period flying the Sea Venom - being in the break in the circuit with my left hand on the HP cock in the Vampire - UhOH - and nothing bad happened subsequently :ok: ]

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A great FLAMEboyant startup at the HaPenny Tar Maccers:


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All the RAF Vampire T11 levers were mounted on a pedestal by the pilot that was mostly hidden by the bang seat. It was definitely throttle and HP/LP cock side by side with the airbrake further back. The flap and undercarriage levers were down the back out of sight but easily(?) differentiated by one having a slab type handle and the other a wheel.

The was a weight on wheels interlock that would push and interference bar across the undercarriage lever when the aircraft was on the ground. This would prevent me retracting the undercarriage instead of the flaps when I turned off the runway after landing.

For illustration purposes the RAN FAA & RAAF Dual Seat Vampires had the same throttle quadrant as seen (but not painted in this fashion). The speed brake lever was painted red as I recall and one bashed it down with the left fist closed to actuate it and raised it as required. We can see the HP fuel cock painted a dull red and it is closed. On the Sea Venom the speedbrake lever was in the same position in regards to throttle quadrant but also shaped slightly differently. Sea Venom Graphic Illustration follows then a photo.

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Very comprehensive ... thanks, SpazSinbad :ok:

Spazsinbad,
excellent thanks. When I worked on Javelins I seem to recall that one of my fellow groundcrew who had worked on Venoms said they used to put an asbestos blanket over the tailplane for startups.
When on Hercules I flew with an ex Venom driver. His take on the different marks was that one went in vertically and the other in a spiral dive !

The Vampires I knew had a few tricks to catch one out, such as the precession of the artificial horizon during take off (acceleration). This caught out one RAN FAA Midshipman (under training at Pearce in 1966) killed during his first night solo takeoff in a Mk35 Vamp. When I started there in mid 1968 my instructor showed me the scar on the hillside as I followed (incorrectly) the AH without allowing for the precession, during daytime - under instruction specifically to see what would happen. Point taken.

With more than one hundred cartridge starts in the Sea Venom I do not recall any dud wet starts however from a distance I recall seeing a wet start when the wind was up the aft end. Usually the Nowra Vamps & Venoms were lined up facing west with usually westerly winds. Only several days a year would the wind from the east reach Nowra to upset any starts. Had one inoperative cartridge with 'would you believe' no back up cartridge (usually installed for the use of) luckily at Nowra and not somewhere in RAAFland. Venoms would often sojourn to Laverton or even Avalon for Fleet Support work.

The view over the Venom nose was awful in the circuit but one adjusted as explained in the other thread - do a tight base turn & short final.

PhotoBucket is just crap at moment so I'll attach a few pics here....