Taking friends up for a joy ride
 

I've been meaning to seek opinions on this story from my dim and distant yoof. Many years ago a (then) teenage friend of mine was woken early one morning by his father and bundled into a car with a family friend who was an officer in the RAF. I'm not sure exactly where he was taken but he was treated to a private flight up the coast in the back seat of a Hawk, I seem to recall him mentioning that they overflew Blackpool Tower (so Valley then ?).

I was of course immensely envious, especially as he wasn't even interested in aviation, while it was all I ever thought or talked about.

So the question is - did the RAF allow such things, or would this have been one of those under the radar deals perhaps due to the officer's seniority ?

I too was immensely jealous when a good friend of mine took another friend up in a Hunter at Yeovilton and exceeded Mach 1. Apparently he qualified for this treat because he was a school teacher. Some years later I managed to get him to give me a trip in a JP5 because I now qualified as a civilian gliding instructor with the ATC. Not quite the same but great fun.

The friend who got the Hunter trip was not particularly interested in flying which made my jealousy more justified. He had only ever flown in an Auster and, when invited to take the controls in the Hunter, he applied the same control movements he would have done in the Auster. He then unwittingly discovered the roll rate of a fast jet and frightened himself silly.

No, No and No

The guy is an absolute fantasist.

Arc

Hmmmm
At a certain airfield where I used to work,a visiting RAF Hawk came in one day,our usual VAS guy was away - so I 'saw him in' .
He was closely followed in by a Tiger Moth,the Tiggie pilot was the Hawk pilots father.
Father was then taken for a ride in the Hawk :)
Seemed to work out OK and the Hawk home base were none the wiser !

Then there's the story of the glider pilot who took HIMSELF up for a joyride in a single seat A-4 Skyhawk.

LINK

Yes it is possible, but only with the requisite approvals (including medical) and authorisation (which is held at quite a high level). There are even guidelines on family members flying together when there are dependants.

During my time I have flown with my wife, flown in the same formation as my wife and, quite independently of me, she also flew in a Harrier T10.

The rules and regulations surrounding such activity are there for a reason and I cannot imagine a situation where someone would breach them or even attempt to do anything 'under the radar' - military aviation is just not organised in a way where this would be possible.

JTO

You put more detail around it than I did but you were spot on.

No way that a ride over the sea, on a bang seat would ever be entertained without authority and a medical and a briefing on dinghy drill etc

IMHO

Arc

Damn! :eek:
At least he didn't get shot like that guy that borrowed a tank and took it for a spin on the LA highways.

But what about 'needs must'? As a Sgt ATechA at Valley on Gnat Rects in the Gaydon Hangar, I was called into the office on Friday lunchtime to be told I was being sent to Macrahanish asap to sort out one of our Gnats (XT....) that was there on a landaway exercise. The student pilot had managed during his turnround checks to top up the hyd reservoir with OX-38 - doh! Instructions had been passed (supposedly) that he was to remain there someone arrived to drain, flush & refill. That would be me...
Mode of transport? Back seat, of course. Never having flown in a fast-jet, and being aware of some height / leg length restriction in Gnats, I queried the safety aspect (6' 3" with very long legs) and whether or not I might find myself leaving my knee caps behind should the worst happen. The response left no doubt - " go get yourself kitted out". The office window looked out over the pan and as the conversation came to a halt, I asked to be reminded of the a/c number and on hearing it I said (with relief) "problem solved, Sir. It has just taxied past!

It's far less easy to take a non-military mate flying now than it used to be. Limited airframes/flying time, DH appetite for risk to 3rd parties etc etc. It all counts against it happening today.


However, in days gone by I have taken my wife, son and several good friends flying, all non-military.

At the risk of annoying Salad Dodger, a Vulcan in to Fairford gave a number of KC135 crews quick trips. At Goose Canadian nurses were given a close look over the aircraft :)

More recently ANS families were given air experience in Jet Streams.

Most frighteningly, not flying I admit, but Mrs PN was given an SMG to fire
She hit the target, except it wasn't hers

PN, it's always been easier to give military folk trips, especially so in larger ac, even if they were not British.

With your (ahem) chronology, you're lucky it wasn't a STEN ....

"I say Chief, it's jammed ...."

..............

Lfh, true, we had Sten in ITS. I had a misfire, the next round cleared the misfire down the barrel and itself through the breech. Fortunately I was on the right of the line.

A naval friend of my late father fixed up a trip in a fast jet for me when I was 15... (yes, there really were fast jets back then ;) ).

But I was a CCF cadet - unfortunately a pongo as the school didn't have any other sections.

The jet was a Sea Vixen FAW2 - and the occasion was the Farnborough Air Show. An unbelievable experience when the RAF wouldn't even sanction an AEF Chipmunk trip for a non-ATC CCF/RAF cadet.

As for Sten guns, we had a couple in the school armoury plus blank firing barrels which had a restriction to provide gas pressure to work the mechanism - one of which had broken. One day I went with another CCF chum to collect the repaired barrel from the local gunsmiths - the look on the locals' faces when my chum produced a Sten gun from his brief case to fit the newly repaired barrel was hilarious. We took it back to school and tested it on the lower sports fields, but after a brief burst of fire the barrel failed again.

The joys of the 1960s!

Whilst JTO and Arc are quite correct in that it would never be entertained I think they rather miss the point. Logistically yes this would have been possible 'under the radar', morally would the individual have taken the risk? Reading some comments on here and going on personal experience then yes.

I used to know 2 almost identical brothers - one in the forces - the other a civvy.
Both glider pilots,the serving brother arranged a fast jet flight for himself - and his brother came to visit the airfield on the same day - well who would have known the difference :) ? I would have struggled to tell them apart.
If something can be done we can all rest assured that it has been done.
Slightly more difficult these days of course !Most things are more difficult.

And then there was the SAAF Pilot a couple of years back who took a civvie for a Pilatus ride. The individual spotted a yellow and black handle, wondered what it did, and pulled it!!

Ever remember the Christmas tale published in air clues in the I learnt from that section, in which in order to get a band for the officers mess Christmas ball a junior officer agreed to take them flying unofficially in an Anson, which on being discovered was told on pain of death if anything happened to the Anson he would be well and truly screwed.
He took off with the band and all went well until landing when the gear wouldn't come down. Cutting to the result, on finals he chopped an engine then flicked the prop around level on the starter, repeating the process with the other he dead sticked it onto the runway coming to rest on the wheels that sit semi retracted in the bay's, the groundcrew raised it, pulled the gear down and then pushed the undamaged aircraft into the hangar.

Seems it can be a whole lot easier to get a flight as a civvy if you are some kind of 'celebrity' - happens, or used to at least, down on our side of the globe quite a bit. A smiley-faced photo of the individual in question on the front page of the newspaper was seen as a good bit of PR, although not necessarily the used spew bag when they were back on the ground!

LOL - our pax strap ins always included a strong reminder not to touch anything yellow and black stripes or red.

Nutloose, the pilot was not a junior officer, the Ansons were guarded jealously by the professional pilot mafia. Seriously though my first flight was with a Fg Off Fitzsimonds. My next was with Master Pilot Payne. The other pilot I remember was Flt My Harvey Hilliard the SFSO. 25 years later I flew with his son.

That Air Clues article was of a Master Pilot but I can't recall where the Annie was from.

AotW, quite. Our Media Ops had a number of "free" tickets for Typhoon flights. Thomas Harding, late Defence Correspondent to the Daily Telegraph was one such but when he displeased their Airships his ticket was allocated elsewhere.

Those celebrity flights still occur in the U.S. and have been going on for a long time.

For example, you can see who got a ride in the SR-71 in the Staff and VIP sections at the bottom of this sorted list:

SR-71 Crew and Riders

A friend had the honor of taking John Glenn up in a B-2, I believe it was in the late 1990's, early in the program. He said it was somewhat low profile, perhaps because Senator Glenn had been an early opponent of the aircraft due to his skepticism of the cost benefits of stealth technology.

A few politicians, including Senator Glenn and Florida Congressman Bill Nelson rode on Space Shuttle flights. The 1986 Challenger disaster pretty much ended the VIP astronaut program. :sad:

I remember Hazel Irvine (ing?) Going for a trip in an F3 for children in need.
TA at RAF SAM used to take his wife up quite regularly although I believe she had some quasi- research based role?

That is the type of story that makes this site such a pleasure. Thanks for sharing, and that's some impressive piloting.

PN. T'was a Master and Scampton IIRC. Annie at Scampton my first flight as an Air Cadet, 1962.

PM

A bit of thread drift, but when I was at Marham, the Lightning OCU came to us for several months while Coltishall was having its runway resurfaced. Each squadron had a list of blokes who wanted a ride in a T4 should the opportunity arise. The theory was the flight would go to the the bloke on the top of the list.

One day I was in the crew room when the phone rang. "Anyone available for a flight in a T4?" I considered finding the list for about 2 seconds, then said "I'm on my way"! Brilliant 40 minute flight - the bit I remember most was 0-35,000' in around 4 minutes - about 14 minutes quicker than a Victor K1!

Chuck Yeager, in his autobiography bragged about taking one (or more?) of his children across the US in a B-25 in the late 1940s. On a later occasion he flew his boy on his lap in an F-84 from Edwards AFB to Palm Springs Municipal Airport. His wife was waiting on the ramp at Palm Springs and Chuck lifted the boy over the side to her with the motor running and then returned to Eddy solo. Things were different then.

FWIW -for many years now - including recently- in the U.S- the Blue Angels give Journalist-PR rides in number 7 F-18 ( two seater ) to at least one in virtually every town they do airshows. They video the whole thing ( no doubt editing out the barf bag issue ) Quite spectacular when on takeoff- they reach about 50 foot altitude and then rack it straight up to about 10 k feet. The view looking backwards over the helmet of the journalist says it all..

And yes- in the seattle area they go out over the ocean and sometimes exceed Mach 1 ..

I recall as a JP student at Cranwell in the mid 80s, the families day entertainment features a QFI's wives taxying competition.

Can't imagine that happening these days.

In the early sixties, my Dad, my younger brother and I were members of a rifle club that shot twice a week on the "Miniature Range" at the local TA drill hall. Several times a year, we took the club's .303s to Bisley and shot on the Century Range.

Once a year, the local TA that we were affiliated with (we were a "Home Guard Rifle Club"), invited us to their annual shooting competition at Ash Ranges. Since this was a two-day event, they "lent" us L1A1s for the weekend! I remember having four of them stacked in the hall cupboard at home.

On the Saturday morning, some of us went to Bisley to "zero-in" our new toys. Apart from some strange looks, no one queried why a bunch of scruffy civilians were wandering around with semi-automatic Army rifles.

I cannot imagine the reaction these days!

Always easier in the helo world. A friend of mine has taken his father and others mountain flying all over Wales in Jungie SeaKings and tales of picking up nurses etc for jollies/banyans are legion.
I daresay Pusser was a bit more relaxed about this sort of thing though.

During 18 Sqns 25th anniversary celebration, it was authorised for wives to go on a flight in the Chinook, I still have the certificate somewhere and picture of them in flying suits walking out to the aircraft.

After moving from Gutersloh to St Athan an 18 Sqn Chinook arrived and I recognised the crew, while I was talking to them I jokingly asked if there was any chance of a trip for myself and others from the hangar, quite surprised when it was agreed. A load of us jumped on and as I still had my flying kit (I was a rotortuner) decided to be a poser and wear it, great trip and well recieved by the St Athan guys as they don't get out much, only problem was the Flight Sgt was not impressed as I forgot to ask permission to take time off.

One of my best flights was the last Hunter at Honington, I was given a flight with an experienced QFI, and I think I have asked before if anyone on here might have been, or know who the pilot was and aircraft number, as I regret now not recording those details, something I had not done on any of my flights in aircraft, like the Vulcan one at Scampton.

We used to have the "Goddess Night" at Middle Wallop in the "90's" when wives/girl friends were shown round and, if willing, taken for a flight in the AAC Chipmunks and "lesser" choppers. Then all to the pub for beer and curry, great days!

Bill

"would ever be entertained without authority"

but if you don't ask "authority"....... or they turn a blind eye

Wouldn't happen these days but 30-40 years ago.............

I wonder what the absolute minimum "bang seat drill" would be that's considered acceptable ?

One of my favourite comments was from a T4 front seater who advised his passenger that in the event of an emergency he would loudly announce "EJECT, EJECT, EJECT" whereupon the passenger was to pull "this handle", and if he failed to do so the second message would be the words "Follow Me" written on the bottom of his boots.

I managed to get a low level nav flight from Chiv in a Hawk, I think it was based on my being an OTC officer cadet, hence the 'military' link (not that we in the OTC were terribly military!):ok:

During the 80s it was deemed acceptable for wives to "indulge" on certain routes with the Hercules. This decision was welcomed and even encouraged by Squadron "training sorties" with the wives to Jersey for the day or Cyprus for a weekend. Some outfits managed things like a Caribbean trainer but had to pay for hotel rooms. It was all going swimmingly so the offer of indulgence flights was passed on to other units. Then one day an army wife who came back on a flight from Akrotiri decided to cover her expenses by putting in a claim for whiplash injuries on landing at Lyneham. On the piece of paper she read it was stated that "the seating did not conform to airline standards and did not have adequate head restraint". All further flights for wives and families were banned and a marvellous opportunity lost. It may even have been the cause of air cadets being eventually grounded.
As Rene from 'Allo 'Allo would have said "Stupid woman!"

When on the VGS, we used to have a fair few jollies when the helicopters came to play at our airfield...and many thanks to the crews who would always try and take passengers when they could.
One memory that sticks out for me was the AAC Lynx who popped in to top up at a temporary refuelling point that had been set up for them during an exercise, who initially said he unfortunately didn't have time to take us due to a pick up he had to make, took off and then turned straight round and landed again and said 'OK, I can take you for a quick circuit but I really must go after that'...and that is what he did.
Top marks to him.