OMG,
I hope your posts continue to be read by many more Pruners for the wisdom, understanding and knowledge they contain of what happened and continues to happen in Northern Ireland. Most of all I thank you for your service.


I was born and brought up in East Belfast before leaving at 16 y/o to join the RAF in 1960 so I had already seen some violence in the 50´s episode.


I was based at RAF Ballykelly when the troops first arrived to assist the RUC in protecting the marches back then. Some were stationed on our base and I saw how they were first welcomed with open arms and cups of tea on street corners. It was not long however before they began returning to BK bandaged or with arms in slings etc from injuries caused by bricks and bottles thrown at them by the protectees and this was just the beginning.


I read the local Belfast Telegraph daily online and have a brother still there so I am aware that, as you said, the "show" goes on. That same brother was a pólice officer in Birmingham at the time of the pub bombings there and was involved in the rescue efforts at the bars involved.


Good luck to you and yours, have a peaceful Christmas and 2017.

So wouldn't it be fairer to the ex-soldiers involved not to start calling the killings "murder"?

I remember the hullabaloo over the Shoreham crash when poster began attributing blame before the findings of the AIB were released. Don't these 2 gentlemen deserve the same consideration?

OMG
Thanks for your contribution and gratitude. There are many reading this who deserve your thanks far more than me I was but a kid of an engineer.
Wishing you all the best for Christmas and new year sir.
Regards
John

Shack37,

Nice to see we're from the same part of the world. Have always been fond of BK, but never had to avoid Ben Twitch in a Shack in IMC!

Bigbux,

You are correct; no solicitor/barrister worth their salt would entertain the use of the word "murder" being put towards their client during a Police interview. They are fine with "Did you kill 'X'"?, but you do not use the 'M' word.

John/Jonw66,

Found the SHFNI thread, excellent stuff. Things seemed so much simpler then....

You write "I was but a kid of an engineer" - you sell yourself short sir. The one thing I didn't say in my earlier post is that when you are in a cold, wet, field there is nothing worse than a u/s cab.....

Merry Christmas & HNY to you and yours.

We just need a thumbs up button here.
All the best friend

Shame
 

It has come to this. A Chelsea Pensioner was today questioned for four hours by officers of the NIPS over an incident 45 years ago. Where is the justice in this? What sort of society do we serve for Chri$$ake! Absolutely flaming disgusted. Shame on all those pursuing this debacle.

There is no statute of limitations on investigating a murder and neither should there be

why being a Chelsea Pensioner makes a difference is also beyond me

There is no investigation to speak of. The same records that were used at the time to demonstrate that these incidents were lawful killings are now being used against individual soldiers. All that has happened is the passage of time and a reimagining of the past to cast such killings as unlawful, thus allowing the records and testimony of the soldiers involved to be used against them.

These deaths haven't suddenly come to light and neither have the names of the servicemen involved. About the only mystery remaining is the actions of the opposing terrorists, but I doubt any detailed records will be provided by them.

If there is any blame (and it is a very big if) the responsibility lies with the State. These servicemen did not choose to arm themselves or deploy in such difficult circumstances. They just happened to be the ones at that scene, on that day, in those circumstances, making the most difficult of decisions.

They served their country well and they deserve our unflinching support now and forever.

According this, in the guys own words of course, it was a firefight and the terrorist he opened fire on was attacking fellow Marines. Sincé when is defending yourself and colleagues when under attack murder? FFS.
As he commented, why don´t they start prosecuting WW2 veterans before the remaining few die off?
When are they going to investigate the likes of Adams and Maguinness? Oh no, they´re politicians now of course.


Chelsea Pensioner tells of his despair at being accused of murdering IRA gunman almost 45 years ago

" in the guys own words of course" says it all....................

Quite a few well known "facts" have proved to be .........different ........ when re-investigated a few years later - I'm sure we can all remember the main ones

Are they now going to deny that the Marines were fired on?


I ask again, when are the real murderers going to be investigated properly?
1. Maguinness for his history as an IRA commander in Londonderry:
2. Adams re the accusations of being boss of the gang responsable for the disappearances, including the kidnap, torture and subsequent murder of Mrs. Jean McConnel who the cowards later admitted was innocent. Her only crime being a protestant in a catholic área living with her catholic husband.

This whole episode reminds me of the "Breaker Morant" story, although the prosecution was at a slightly higher level (JO rather than OR), those really responsible got clean away.

Shack - I'd love to see former senior members of the IRA stand trial but you have to face up to it - it's not going to happen.

To bring about an end to the fighting and killing we had to cut a deal with men and women who had blood up to their elbows. Morally it is repugnant but practically it was the only way. We've done it before (Kenya, Israel, Cyprus.....) and others have done it elsewhere (think Columbia).

You can go for the complete and total amnesty route as they did in Chile but then a lot of people such as victims famillies on both sides are left very upset and you still finish up in the courts.

HH

In this we are in total agreement but how many British forces veterans of the campaigns you mention, Mau-Mau, Palestine and EOKA are being investigated? Why is it only those who served in Northern Ireland who are being pursued?


Twice I have mentioned Adams and Maguinness. There is no doubt that the latter was a PIRA commander in Londonderry and Adams has been linked to the disappearances and murders of many people. The sons of Jean MaConnell still live in fear because their mother was dragged away in their presence and they know who the cowardly bastards were who took her, tortured and murdered her. It has been said more than once that it was Adams personally who ordered this.


If there is a Heaven and Hell I know where I´d like to see these two go.

"Why is it only those who served in Northern Ireland who are being pursued?

It's not of course - there are investigations, trials and convictions for GW1, GW2, Afghanistan etc etc.

As for the IRA we talked to Yitzhak Shamir when he was PM of Israel even tho his hands were as blood -stained as our Irish friends.....

To some extent we made a rod for own backs by refusing to recognise the "obeying orders" alibi put forward by germans post-war. Once you say that the military have a duty to act responsibly as if they were civis whatever the military situation you finish up where we are now..........

HH
You are perfectly correct, I was becoming a bit overfocussed with NI.
In the end I can only hope that justice is done and seen to be done for all.

I suppose all of us who served in Bomber Command might be guilty of conspiracy to murder 200 million Russians?

now that you mention it..........................

So to get it back on the subject matter which was killing of McCann.

In 1995 a book on INLA by Jack Holland detailed McCann's death.................. I guess as he was a journalist he got the details of his death from official police sources amd was a writer on NI until his death.
This indicated that up to 10 spent cartridges were found yards from his body.

McCann, was as indicated by official police accounts, running away from police and soldiers when shot after a foot chase through some streets.

The question is what weapon in use at the time fired from a distance would also bring the cartridges with it and disperse them so close to their intended target.
Must admit not to knowing of such a weapon but there maybe one.

You guess. Down the many years of the Northern Ireland Troubles too many ignorant people have also guessed and innocent people have died as a result. Spouting about human rights and justice is fine but why apply it only to the security forces?

Have you ever heard of Police Sgt Ovens? No, I thought not. In 1956 he was just an ordinary bobby (peeler to us) who went to investigate a reported incident at the Coalisland water supply tower. He was blown to bits by an IRA bomb ... yes, this campaign began 60 years ago.

How about an inquiry into the 1978 bombing of the Collie Dog Club dinner at La Mon Hotel which incinerated 12 people? My wife would have been there but she had the flu that week. Her friend was identified by the frame of her artificial leg. Questions about this horrific attack remain unanswered.

Have you heard of Bloody Friday? No, I thought not. Ten people lost their lives when bombs went off around central Belfast, including a bus station and opposite my own office which was spattered with bits of people. No inquiry there, then?

Having lived through 50 years of this I hold no brief for either side in this conflict, one's as bad as the other and they're still at it. But I am certain that had it not been for the brutal British soldiery now being investigated for doing their best in impossible situations our civil war would have been as brutal as those now in the Mideast. I could fill 20 pages of this thread with similar incidents for which nobody will ever be held to account, but I try to forget about it. Could I ask you to do the same and cease from ill-informed "guesses" and speculation which can still cause distress to those who were here?