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-   -   Red Arrows to get new aircraft... (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/586455-red-arrows-get-new-aircraft.html)

Nige321 1st Nov 2016 12:04

Red Arrows to get new aircraft...
 
Reds to get new aircraft

Eventually...:D


The Red Arrows aerobatic team will get new planes, Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon has confirmed.

The announcement comes as RAF stations in Lincolnshire celebrate 100 years in the county.

There has been some uncertainty in recent years whether the team based at RAF Scampton would be retained.

Sir Michael said the team's current Hawk jets need to be replaced and a decision will be made over the next couple of years.

He said it was too early to say which aircraft would replace the Hawk jets.

Fareastdriver 1st Nov 2016 12:08

Grob T120TPs. Save the defence budget a load of money. More cash for the civil servants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grob_G_120TP

Bigbux 1st Nov 2016 12:49

Rumour has it we have found a use for the excess Chinooks gordon Brown ordered.

622 1st Nov 2016 12:56

So that's where the Air Cadet Vigi's are going! ;)

Tashengurt 1st Nov 2016 12:58

This is going to be a 'popcorn' thread.

MPN11 1st Nov 2016 13:05

Well, that certainly raises some interesting questions!

Can 'we' afford 10 shiny new fast-ish jets? And if so, will they be a stand-alone type, or something already in RAF service (which rather narrows the options!)? Or will they be some sort of smallish, cheapish, aerobatic civvy-thing which doesn't really project the RAF image? Or will it be a small number of a current military type, doing loop-the-loop in Diamond Four?

KiloB 1st Nov 2016 13:19

Commercial aspects.
 
It would seem to be a safe bet that the replacement will have to be:

1. (At least partially) British manufacture.
2. Exportable.

So that narrows the possibilities to a newer version of the Hawk or early model Typhoons?!?

KB

NutLoose 1st Nov 2016 13:20

http://images.pistonheads.com/nimg/2...ormation-L.jpg

Sandy Parts 1st Nov 2016 13:41

I foresee a shiny red fleet of MQ-9 Reapers. Pilots will be allowed to wear red flying suits but Sensor Operators must make do with blue ones. An Admin Sqn Ldr will remain as the virtual AdminO and will also be allowed to wear a red flying suit while sat in their office as long as working on team admin. During 'promotional tours' wives will be allowed to join the pilots and stay in the nearest Travelodge to the cabins.

hoss183 1st Nov 2016 13:47

Good news, but i was also wondering what model it will be.
I was thinking in these days of austerity why can't the jets be currently used models such as the typhoon? Then they could be dual-role, pressed into service if needed.. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will shoot-down that idea, but i'd be interested to know why not?

JG54 1st Nov 2016 13:48

Hawk (in any form) seems unlikely, certainly if the industrial (and export) opportunities are a genuine and serious consideration. It's had a damn good run, but it's reached the end of line, developmentally.

Some (UK built?) version of the Northrop Grumman / BAE T-X offering may be a possibility, I imagine. In which case, you'd maybe want to look at replacement of the Hawk 'legacy' & T2 fleet early for commonality (and you're gonna need a damn site more than ten aircraft to keep The Reds going for another forty years).

Shame AT2000 / Mako - HEAT didn't result in metal (composite, actually - or so I assume) being cut, though.

Please, please - just don't let it be some pathetic prop job in the form of the Tucano replacement....

noflynomore 1st Nov 2016 14:09

Perhaps BAe have something new in the jet trainer line up their sleeves?

JG54 1st Nov 2016 14:31

I'd imagine that if they had, it would have formed the basis of their original pitch for the T-X requirement, rather than Hawk. Highly unlikely, although in a perfect world, it would be a most pleasing outcome for all.

langleybaston 1st Nov 2016 15:19

I do hope that, if the job is done, it is done properly, which means high - performance of course.

When I was privy to a certain War Book, the Reds were , I believe, a designated combat reserve?

Why not, so long as a bucket of grey could be sloshed over them and weaponry activated?

Problem solved: Typhoons.

Where do I sign?

andytug 1st Nov 2016 15:22

That would be some noise in a display..... one with full burner on already sets off every car alarm in a mile radius, so ten of them....

Pontius Navigator 1st Nov 2016 15:31

Why 10?

Diamond 4 more affordable :)

GeeRam 1st Nov 2016 15:37


Originally Posted by andytug
That would be some noise in a display..... one with full burner on already sets off every car alarm in a mile radius, so ten of them....

10....?

How about 22 of them and paint them black :E

hoodie 1st Nov 2016 15:43


Originally Posted by MPN11 (Post 9563418)
Can 'we' afford 10 shiny new fast-ish jets?

"Jets", you say. Can we be sure about that? :suspect:

Pontius Navigator 1st Nov 2016 15:55

Daily Wail reports that China has offered to make copies of Halk trainer four Red Allows.

MPN11 1st Nov 2016 16:02

Thanks, PN :)

Interesting problem, innit!!

zero1 1st Nov 2016 16:10

How about Red Drones, no need for the aircrew to leave the bar...

Roland Pulfrew 1st Nov 2016 16:53

Haven't we just ordered 9 P-8s..........:E

Admin_Guru 1st Nov 2016 18:13

The fact that the statement is lacking the whole story gives much cause for concern.


Were it "Red Arrows to get Hawk T2" in 2018 just in time for the RAF Centenary year I could believe it and await the public outcry from some about the plethora of things that would benefit from taxpayers money.


Todays statement is akin to throwing a brick in a pond. Govt now stand back and see how many ripples reach the shore based upon speculation to test the water and see if 'new aircraft' need to be downgraded to recycled aircraft such as Tucano - or the whole thing filed under "J for joke".


For sure MFTS/Ascent could be a stick in the spokes as politics presently play its hand with Grob Tutor deployments away from base and the need for ground support.


The more I think about it, the more I think today is a scoping exercise for public reaction. The Grannies & Spotters will love it; a huge swathe of society will begrudge it. It needs to be done and dusted well outside any potential election campaign for it is destined to be contentious.

MPN11 1st Nov 2016 18:21

From the first post's link:


Amendment: This story was changed on November 1 to reflect the defence secretary's comments that the Red Arrows fleet would be reviewed rather than imminently replaced.
Ahhh, that's a different story altogether.

langleybaston 1st Nov 2016 18:35

Better not done at all than badly surely?

KPax 1st Nov 2016 19:14

Lots of aircraft sitting in a certain Shropshire airbase.

Onceapilot 1st Nov 2016 19:45

Probably best if they get some early Typhoons, and are declared as a UK AD Sqn, with PR Aero's as a "secondary" (primary!) task! :cool:

OAP

MPN11 1st Nov 2016 20:00

Do we have a dozen spare Typhoons with enough airframe life to cope with the Reds' exuberant flying?

Anyway, it's now another 'Review", just like the LTC has had them as a line item since the 80s.

The Oberon 1st Nov 2016 20:10

Red Bull Arrows ??

NWSRG 1st Nov 2016 20:11

There's bound to be a sensible answer to this question, but what exactly can a T1 Hawk do that a T2 cannot?

Finningley Boy 1st Nov 2016 21:18

The most unradical solution would be Hawk T2s. If we're getting an extra 2 Typhoon Sqns dedicated to air defence, and given the current political climate, we may expect possibly to see more T2s anyway from which perhaps enough to form a 5 or 7 ship for example. Such a move would be reasonable and en:8sure the team live on for a fair few years yet!

However, if the thinking is to use anything lighter would certainly miss the point of the Red Arrows altogether.

Interesting though how in these more abundant and resourceful times the RAF have no obvious successor to a display team mount that has been on the go for 40 years or so. :hmm:

FB:)

JFZ90 1st Nov 2016 21:57

Cost per flying hour would be a bit of an issue for Typhoon, sadly.

Typhoon - £70-90k/hour a few years back.
Hawk T1 (Red Arrows) - £6k/hour

Hard to see how the answer shouldn't be a Hawk T2. Being UK built is part of the overall media/PR package.

I don't think many in the public really care about the marginal cost of running the RAFAT.

And as for numbers - it has to be nine if for no other reason that the Patrouille de France have eight aircraft :)

TEEEJ 1st Nov 2016 21:58

Could the replacement be the Textron AirLand Scorpion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textron_AirLand_Scorpion

An April Fool this year. Scorpion photo shopped in Reds scheme.

STOP PRESS! Red Arrows Hawk Replacement Announced

Bigbux 1st Nov 2016 22:00

I predicted the purchase of a fleet of Kawasaki P1s, so in the same vein of unflappable self-delusion, I offer you:

Boeing: Boeing T-X Sees the Light

Job's a good un.

XR219 1st Nov 2016 22:54

Maybe HAL will offer a good deal on some Hawk 132s? The IAF did after all buy 20 for its own aerobatic team recently...

Alternatively, how many Alpha Jets do QQ have...?

airborne_artist 1st Nov 2016 23:02


The Red Arrows aerobatic team will get new planes
Plenty here to choose from. Reckon they'd fit the budget. Not much to look at mind. :ok:

Lima Juliet 1st Nov 2016 23:03

http://www.aero-news.net/images/cont...pers-0416a.jpg

Simples...

unmanned_droid 1st Nov 2016 23:36

When do the Red Arrows become one of the largest squadrons in the RAF?

Following on from LBs comment about the Red Arrows being declared a reserve combat squadron....

As a combat squadron (I hesitate to say AD or GA given the mix of crew backgrounds) would the Red Arrows aircrew offer one of the toughest challenges out there to an enemy? or would they be not at their best combat wise due to the aeros practice?

I know this is a rather whimsical question, but they've apparently been chosen as the best of the best (cue volleyball scene...).

Sorry, in a flippant mood tonight.

Heathrow Harry 2nd Nov 2016 06:42

buy Hawks to keep the production line running......

Parson 2nd Nov 2016 06:51

I would imagine the T1s will soldier on for a while yet. Potentially, could any replacement be linked with new aircraft for 100 and &
736NAS? Assuming those units have a long term future.


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