The Battle of Britain
 

Surely Beagle is not the only one of us to have noticed the date, and that today is Battle of Britain Day. Glass raised to the aircrew, and to those on the ground, including my Dad who was in London with the AFS. RiP the departed

Well done Wander00, I was beginning to wonder. I'm afraid I had occasion to upbraid Beagle on another thread for playing the Section Officer Harvey card a day early, but would warmly welcome her appearance today!

Your tribute is indeed timely, for we all owe those who fought for us, both in the air and on the ground in that strategically vital conflict, our gratitude and our freedom. Enough of the chattering classes and their qualification of the greatest triumph of the Royal Air Force and of those who chose to come from many other nations to join in the struggle against tyranny.

In particular let us remember the AOC-in-C and his 11 Group AOC. Without their leadership we might never have triumphed. Under the leadership of those who plotted to oust them we most certainly wouldn't have! :=

I found it depressing that, on such a day, top of the bill was a discussion about a US rape case. Now we are back on track with this thread -

“Here dead lie we because we did not choose
To live and shame the land from which we sprung.
Life, to be sure, is nothing much to lose;
But young men think it is, and we were young.”

15 September 1940. Every fighter squadron was committed in battle, the RAF had no reserves.

Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few
Sir Winston Churchill

Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire………..Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour.”
Sir Winston Churchill

Somebody remembered
 

BBC TV South today reported that the pupils at a school in Southampton felt that Flt Lt James Nicholson, Fighter Command's only VC, should have some sort of memorial in Southampton as he earned his VC in combat over the town. They organised for a plaque in his honour and today it was unveiled I think at the school.

Polecat

Nicolson I think?

There is an amusing thread over at ARRSE about the Battle of Britain.
It seems that not everyone thinks the 'few' won the battle!

Nicolson I think?

Possibly, but you know who I mean.

Just checked. You're right. I stand corrected. Apologies to anyone I offended.

Polecat

Tried to find the film on iTunes to show the boy.
Seems to be available on DVD only.

Tartare

I watched it a few weeks ago on Youtube.

Unfortunately like many others, the film in it's entirety has been removed for licencing reasons.

However it can still be viewed if you don't mind watching it in chapters.

8 I seem to recall, but they run seemlessly into each other, so no great loss.

That also allows you to replay some of the funny bits, like the Poles.

"Repeat please!"

Absolutely haunting closing scene/soundtrack too. Lest we forget

Neatly dramatised by Churchill (and the movie), but when Park replied 'there a none' when asked what reserves he had, he was only speaking for 11 Group. Although the RAF were no doubt stretched between 13:45 and 15:45 there were squadrons in 10 and 12 Groups available to call on.

Great shame that these historic events are not truly recognised. In today's society the news media have no interest in reporting such events.
In NZ there was no recognition of Keith Park's contribution.:=

I was my tremendously privileged to witness a great event last Saturday. The last Canadian Battle of Britain survivor was taken for a ride in a 3 ship formation of Harvards.

It was his 100 th Birthday and he was totally chuffed to get in the air again. He was physically pretty frail but otherwise in good health and a delight to talk to.

Sadly it will not be very long before they are all gone......

I wonder how many millions of recent immigrants to Britain even care about BoB Day? :rolleyes:

Yet they flock to Britain because they see it as a bastion of personal freedom. I wonder what the BoB pilots would think today?

In 1970 I was on a det in Greece with No 72 (Messopotamia) Sqn, working with 4 Hueys of the German Air Force. On BoB day, we duly flour-bombed them from the Wessex and then took over the beer for a good thrash. After a while, I noticed an old WO pilot sitting quietly on his own and engaged him with my dubious German.

It transpired that he had been flying FW 190s from the Pas de Calais in September 1940 but couldn't remember a battle! A different aspect!

I'm guessing that maybe some of the estimated 830,000 Poles who now make up the largest immigrant population in the UK will remember, particularly those whose parents and grandparents came here to fight. Sad, then, that a Polish man was recently kicked to death by a group of louts in Harlow for the crime of speaking Polish in the street. I rather think it was they who had never heard of the Battle of Britain.

Having watched a lot of the action from ground-level in the Sussex/Kent border area I well remember not only the one date but those preceding and following. It also happens to be my wife's birthday so I daren't forget such an auspicious occasion.

Well said TN.

As the Poles saw the results of German invasion and occupation first hand they have even more reasons to remember what their volunteers did in the BoB to defeat the axis forces.

It's always worth remembering that the average Brit living in Britain only got to see axis forces in the form of unarmed surrendered/captured POWs (or Luftwaffe crews after being shot down/crashing etc). There is a world of difference between the actions of the Italian POWs in a camp where I grew up and the actions of the SS ravaging Poland.

Minor drift, but I was very taken with three memorials I stumbled across just back from the beach on the Dutch island of Walcheren. All honoured Marines from UK, Norway and the US who were involved in its liberation. The Dutch have long memories of the fight waged from the UK between 1939 and 1945, and of course many Bomber Command Aircrew were harboured or buried there. They don't forget.

Ref' that rather nice story from Southampton, a mate of mine who has lived near that school for many years tells me that there was an earlier memorial "erected where Nicolson landed, down near the docks. It was within the grounds of Mullards / Phillips' works, and apparently until the 1970's could be visited by request, but that whole area's been flattened and rebuilt at least once since then, and we've found no indication of what happened to the memorial; it seems likely to have been bulldozed along with the rest of the buildings."


Does anyone by any chance know whether he is correct ?

Salute to the Brave.
 

Top West 50 (#3), and Robert Cooper (#4),

Well quoted, Gentlemen !

Or, as Macaulay wrote a century ago:


And Robert Cooper quoted Churchill:


For many who took part in those days, it was true of their individual lives, too.

Cheers, both,

Danny42C.

Thanks for the Macaulay quote Danny. One of my favourites, and I think I'm guilty of quoting it far too often.

Salute to the Brave.
 

polecat2 (#5),
Met him casually in the Calcutta "Grand" in 1944 after my 'prang'. Looked at my battered face, said sympathetically: "Reflector sight trouble ?" Had a long chat over our "John Collins", very nice chap, no "side" to the man at all.

Years ago I Posted the story of the day he earned his VC on "Pilot's Brevet" Thread, tried to find it to put it in as an excerpt here; "Search this Thread" (predictably) as much use as a sick headache; Google (which can usually find most things) no better. Maybe one of you can find it now.
[Wiki].
Only a few weeks before the end in August ! What a pity !

JOE-FBS (your #21),
More than likely ! (sometimes I despair of this country).

Danny42C.

...and, as always, no-one has mentioned the 790 aircrew of Bomber Command who died during the same period. While Fighter Command defended against the Luftwaffe during the day, the aircrew of Bomber Command went out at night to attack the German invasion barges in the cross channel ports...the Germans were forced to remove these from range before the official end of the BoB (don't believe the film). As Churchill said at the time...the fighter is our means of salvation, but the Bomber is our sole means of victory. Don't forget the "Battle of the Barges" either!

It transpired that he had been flying FW 190s from the Pas de Calais in September 1940 but couldn't remember a battle! A different aspect!

No wonder, Mogwi - the Fw190 wasn't operational until nearly a year later! More than likely he'd have been flying an Me109E.

Quote:
I wonder how many millions of recent immigrants to Britain even care about BoB Day?

I wonder how many native Brits actually care nowadays...

Just a little something further to your post, here's a link to the original memorial from the local paper.

http://sotonopedia.wdfiles.com/local...2BNicolson.pdf

I do not know the answer to your question though I'm afraid.

Most of us will not have heard of [or care about!] weather "singularities". These are sets of dates within which a weather pattern predominates.

One such is early to mid September, when anticyclones often hold sway. This is quite a reliable singularity unless I rely on it for holidays or exterior decorating.

It worked for the B o B, and my ex-RAF father [Barrage Balloon operator] always called this period "Battle of Britain weather".

We have had a spectacular example this year, such that I managed holiday and decorating.

Don't look for it next year though .....................

It is on Netflix.

S-D

I bought the BoB DVD....

....at Frankfurt airport :\

'Weather singularities'? Another weather-guesser's euphemism meaning "We don't really know, but you can probably expect rain", perchance?

We had a chap on one station who was 'involved' with rather a large person-formally-known-as-a-WRAF. He was also nicknamed 'Barrage Balloon Operator'....:eek:

47 Years since we were at the premiere Beags..........

Crikey Haraka; you're right. I was with a party that went to the premiere in NI. All in uniform, with the ATC acting as ushers. That was before it all got nasty, of course. That suddenly makes me feel old.

A day late posting but I signed on the dotted line at Halton 15 September 1958 @ 14.00 in the 2 Wing NAAFI (90th Entry) 59 years ago where has it all gone, well approx 25 serving HMQ.

As a young fg off with a shiny budgie on my jacket turned up at Duxford when they were making the film. allowed to go anywhere, suit in anything, and living between Cambridge and Ely had a worms eye view of a lot of the flying. Magic.

QUOTE: 'Weather singularities'? Another weather-guesser's euphemism meaning "We don't really know, but you can probably expect rain", perchance?

BEAGS you know you like to be educated, even at this late stage.

Although I don't know why, forecasts have improved dramatically since I retired.

Answers on a postcard, please.

Terms and conditions apply.

The bombers did play major part in the air war as well, as the 2 Group and Coastal Blenheim did do daylight attacks on airfields across the channel. Though they where soon ended after a couple of squadrons were wiped out, they forced the Germans for keep at least one fifth of their fighter force over France doing standing patrols during daylight hours throughout the whole battle.

At the Duxford show in May last year that had the Blenheim on show for the first time following its rebuild I was standing in front of said aeroplane when a chap comes up to me with an elderly lady in tow and asks whether she can have a look at the rear gunners position. Politely I explained that we were there to keep people from getting too close to the aircraft for their own safety at which point he explained that the lady's late husband had been an Air Gunner on Blenheims during the BoB. He had never talked much about his experiences nor had he claimed his medals( it also appears he went on to serve with the PFF) A claim had been made a few weeks prior and his widow had only just received them. PR were got involved with the upshot that the medals and a photo of her late husband were firmly strapped into the A/G's position whilst the a/c flew its display that day.

Danny
Isn't it true that the town of your current residence has only recently recognised its famous son, the only VC won on D-Day?

I was interested in brokenlink's story about the Blenheim air gunner and his medals. Most people quite naturally associate the Battle of Britain with Spitfire and Hurricane pilots, but no less than nine (I believe) Blenheim squadrons took part, as well as Beaufighters, Defiants and sundry other types. All of their crews were entitled to the rare 'Battle of Britain' clasp.

The only Battle of Britain group of medals I ever owned were to a Sergeant Prosser, who was a Blenheim air gunner. His squadron had been transferred from Coastal to Fighter Command for the duration of the Battle, and thus his medals consisted of 1939-45 Star with 'Battle of Britain' clasp, Atlantic Star with 'Aircrew Europe' clasp and the 1939-45 War Medal, a very unusual combination. It would be interesting to know if the medals referred to in brokenlink's post were the same combination.