Checking on a potential 'Mitty'
 

I have been asked about how to identify whether a certain individual is who they say they are.

He is signing emails as Wing Commander xxxx xxxx with no (Retired) at the end.
Can find his service number and name in the London Gazette with a promotion to Flt Lt as a short service commission but no letter associated with the number which appears at little odd. Date of entry there is 1979.
Nothing after this date to show his promotion beyond that date.
He is suspected of retiring as a Flt Lt and then working in a civil service role in a commensurate SO1 post and therefore using Wing Commander.

I suggested to my colleague to contact RAF Disclosures at RAF Cranwell who were not interested and suggest that my colleague called the police.

The likely first question will be what evidence do you have...

Linked to this, (Retd) as I understand it, should only be used if the person retired from the substantive rank and not a civil service equivalent. So even if he did retire as a civil servant in a SO1 role, Wing Commander is not correct. And the abscence of (Retd) is a definite no no.

Any other suggestions other than approaching the individual directly as it is a rather delicate position the said person is applying for and want to keep relationships open. However, the alarm bells are ringing that this person isn't who they say they are.

Thanks in advance

Actually the correct styles are:

Wg Cdr, RAF or Wg Cdr, RAFR
or when retired Wg Cdr

As an SO1, was he uniformed or not?

I have seen guys in civil service MSF posts use a rank - and not always with (redt) which is probably incorrect but I have never seen one claim to be at a rank above that at which he retired. That is plain naughty whether he is an SO1 post or not.

It may have been a Military Support Function (MSF) post he was in. He may have been required to wear a uniform in that rank even though he was technically CS at SO1 level.

Pedant mode - a retired officer should NOT use the abbreviation Retd (or equivalent) after his name unless it would cause confusion within an organisation (for example, ex wg cdr now working within government with the equivalent status of a flt lt). However, a retired officer shall not be identified as Wg Cdr M Mouse RAF, he needs to bin the RAF bit. So, it is perfectly acceptable for a retired officer to call himself Wg Cdr W Mitty as long as he actually held the rank. There's a whole argument about use of rank however I can say, as a retired officer, it is sometimes useful for people to know your 'form'.

Turning to your particular Walt, ask him what was his last tour and when.

Here's an interesting one - ex RAF senior officer who is now an RAFVR(T) fg off. What rank should he hold, and when. :)

What about ranks below squadron leader? I was always under the impression that below that rank (or equivalent) it was not correct to use former service rank, but when I was a member of the RAF Club they used to write to me as Flight Lieutenant T. Tankertrash. Was that incorrect? Never use it myself - don't think it would impress anyone!

I would have kept the Flt Lt bit and changed away from Tankertrash by deed poll. :)

I've got one of those names that you always have to spell for people. Tankertrash would be a much simpler choice!

I'm impressed...............

Will pm you the address for the cheque

TTN I too thought this was the case, but my old man retired as a Flt Lt (RAFVR) and was allowed to keep his substantive rank.


I thought he may be winding me up but it is actually gazetted thus....


He never uses it obviously.

I stand to be corrected but once I saw that flt lt was correct but captain was not. Possibly because a retired captain from the Blues and Royals might be confused with a real captain :).

The same source had flt lt RAF to take precedence after Lt RN but ahead of Mr rtd.

BTW, when working with green as CS they were totally confused by our status which was as RAFR and not RAF Retd. We had to keep telling them we were commissioned into the RAFR and had the scrolls to prove it.

Talking of captains, I see that BALPA has now a (presumably) different admin officer. I'm retired now and have associate membership. Every time the BALPA magazine arrived, it was addressed to Capt xxx. The latest one is Mr. xxx. There goes my last link with commercial aviation.

Flt Lt Herod (now I know I can use it)

Airpolice, no. Completely separate issue, I hadn't heard of your case/issue.

All, thanks for the comments & feedback. Very useful.

Is individual in an RO / MSF or CS post?

If so then a conversation is appropriate. If not, ignore him as a dull mitty.

Job jobbed.

CS at SO1 level. Hmmm I know a few civil servants insist that as a C1 grade (SEO I think?) they are wing commanders and will be treated as such, with all sorts of foot stomping and other displays of what I recall being described as 'Airmen tendencies' when they either aren't treated as such or are given the appropriate workload.

So just what is the appropriate reposte to such a claim? I know what I'd like to say, but that would probably lead to a complaint.

Re the service number - officers did not have letters before their number until sometime later than '79. Apparently it was something to do with the introduction of some calculating machine or other that could not cope with people only having numbers (queue 'I'm not a number.......') so we all got 'issued' with a letter as well. I also believe that there is some calculation you (or said calculating machine) can use with your number to come up with the letter. so why we had to have them I never really understood.

Been there and Shackman:

As PMRAFNS officers, we only had a 7 figure number and no letters in 1982.

OMG! It must be Groundhog Day.....:ugh:

Jack

My service number has a letter and I was commissioned before 1979.

Anyone using their military rank post-retirement form the military, is sad IMHO.

However, someone felt it worthy of an FOI: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ervice_001.pdf

Sun Who

Joined commissioned in 1974 and my service number has/had 7 digits and a suffix - xxxxxxxT

The PMs were always a separate organisation within the wider RAF and actually did not admit men until 1980.

When in sick bay at RAF Cosford 1960 the morning "rounds" were done by a Flight Officer from PMRAFNS and a Corporal Technician. Both had the same medical qualifications (SRN)

Shackman et al


The letter added to our numbers acted as a 'checksum' ie. if the number was entered incorrectly the machine would spot it (hopefully). It was all to do with our records going digital.


Somewhere in FZ towers I still have the algorithm for the check ... now that is sad! :sad:

You need someone still in the MOD who can check their systems ;-)

Shackman, the letter follows for officers.
Shy Torque letters were introduced for all serving officers regardless of commissioning date.

What I don't know is where the letter is for direct entry officers before they are commissioned. I believe the case for those commissioned from the ranks the letter is moved from front to rear.

Also a lot can be gleaned from the initial nuymber too - 423 was direct entry whereas 608 was Cranwell - and so on. Changing branches, commissioning etc didn't alter that original number.

FZ, the algorithm was aired on Pprune

Incidentally we had a C2 retired Lt Col who always answered the phone Colonel. As we were appointed C2 before him and held an active RAFR commission, we never called him other than Tony.

From the Army view and like the other two services, there are those that can't let go, I've been led to believe you can only use Xxx(Retd) in your substantive rank on relinquish/retire of a Regular Commission. Short Service, Temporary, Emergency, et al don't fit the criteria.

The eternal CS 'rank' debate depresses me. It seems an MOD problem as no other dept I've worked in has ever been rank focused - e.g. I spent months working with someone before discovering they were a 1*.

I think the issue is the military is a visibly judgemental hierachy, by which I mean when people in uniform meet, they surreptitiously check out the rank patches to determine how to act. My experience has been that some areas and military individuals struggle to cope with people who don't wear uniform or hold a military rank - particularly civil servants.

At the same time, the CS has had since its inception a perfectly workable and functional rank/grade structure which predates the current RAF and RN structures, and which shows the level of seniority a CS holds (e.g. an SEO is more senior than an HEO). This allows you to work out who reports to whom, and who is the boss. The problem has come because MOD has had to work out how the CS rank structure corresponds to the military one for reporting purposes. This has led to the abomination of a phrase 'XX Equivalent'. It doesnt mean person X is a Wg Cdr, it means they are an CS SO1 Grade, a subtle but very important difference.

My experience has been the people that say that they are a 'Wing Cdr' are doing it for two reasons. Firstly because they know just how easy it is to wind people up and get a bite with the military by doing so, and its very funny to watch. Secondly its because they are in the very very tiny minority of people who are a little bit strange and probably deserve our sympathy not abuse. A final category is the retired Officer, many of whom seem to make it up as they go (the old uniformed SO1 MSF who insisted on wearing his full Colonels rank tabs and being called Colonel was a classic in my experience).

Basically, extend the professional courtesy due to those civil servants promoted to the position in their system in the way they should show it to military officers in the same way. Then relax and worry about far more interesting things than the CS grade structure.Don't do as the Army has done, which is to recruit a CS Grade 7 (OF5 level) and tell them that their 1RO is a Major...

Breaking the law as they go...

On topic, I'm with Jimlad. If a CS Grade 7 needs to call themselves 'Colonel', they have enough problems to be going on with. Should a 'real' retired Colonel try to get Mrs Golf to call him Colonel (him, women are more secure in their skins) he'd be sorry! As for Sgt Golf (Retd), he's hoping for some fooling around with a G7 'Colonel' later!

CG

I have a GSM and when it arrived the prefix letter was wrong!

I'm not even Flt Lt in a mil organisation to which I belong.
Always said I didn't want to be a fifty year old flight lieutenant.

Interestingly, many believe that only Sqn Ldr or equiv and above may retain rank after leaving service.
MoD sent me a letter specifically saying that, even as a Flt Lt, I could retain the style.
They also said I couldn't wear my uniform to a fancy dress party which got me thinking I'd just spent the last eight years in a great party :ok:

Ricardian:

Indeed, men were in the medical technical branch and male nurse were commissioned into that branch, until the PMs were dragged screaming to commission males.

PN,

I believe that is the case. I was attested into the UAS and was told that although we lived in the Officers' Mess, we were officially Airmen in rank terms. My service number started with a letter and then 7 digits. Fast forward a few years and on commissioning I retained the exact same digits, but the letter had moved to the end of the service number.

That would appear to fit your hypothesis, the only caveat being I don't know whether UAS numbers were out of the ordinary in that sense. I presume not as it would get hellishly complicated if UAS numbers differed markedly what with numbers for sponsored / UAS students, direct entry graduates, direct entry and females all having different numbers.

Many years ago in local government we had a senior member of the County Council, who insisted on being called "Captain". then he was to be appointed a Deputy Lieutenant so they checked his record, to discover that he had been an acting captain, before he lost a foot on the Normandy beaches. We then a received an instruction that "in the interests of democracy and equality" he was henceforth to be known as Mr..... As he was a pretty arrogant person (one quote "I know what consultation mans, it is when I tell my pig man there will be a new pig unit and it is going there") there were waves of sympathy....not. Sad really.

Possible legislative action on its way in this area:
Fake military heroes would face jail under proposed 'Walter Mitty' law

Melchett, the Cranwell 608 series I mentioned was of course for College entrants for the 3 year course - imagine that now. UAS entrants had a different number but in those days they were a rare beast.

We had one at ITS, used to wander around on his own in a proper uniform just doing the odd thing to complete his training before Nav School. He made sqn ldr in 14 years and was our nav ldr on 201.

Distressing further, he decided he would check our logs and charts and we were to leave them in his office. My Nav 2 and I gave him a stiff ignoring, pointed out they were classified and he could peruse at leisure in Ops. Other juniors complied but he never challenged us nor did he check them.

In KSA we had an ex Flt Lt WSO and noticed that his mail was addressed to "Sqn Ldr xxxxxx". After a severe wigging from us, he reverted to what we mere mortals used.

Fat chance (literally - it seems to have shrunk a few sizes).