There is a families day this weekend. It would be prudent to think there may be a link.

Families Day was yesterday!

SS
That was OMQ in my day, right next to 214's disperal.

There were complaints when we did slam checks early one Sunday morning :cool:

As a matter of historical record, before the Great War all senior NCOs walking out [in uniform] carried a sidearm [usually the bayonet]. During the Great War, soldiers at Home from the front carried their personal weapon and wore the sidearm This at least obviated the admin. of handing it in on the way home, and collecting it on the way back. Obviously a zeroed rifle swap is not a good idea.

As a civilian I would be DELIGHTED to know that some [or indeed all] service personnel off duty were armed. Whats not to like?

The Nice terrorism was stopped two miles in by armed police neutralising the threat. Imagine a similar copycat here, say Stamford. How long do we think an armed response team will take to arrive? And as and when the terrorist is taken down, the law officer is automatically suspended and the Complaints process begins.

Get real, Britain ............. the time for soft fluffy idealism is long past.

I don't believe it's 'soft, fluffy idealism' but the rule of law -isn't that part of what we're fighting for & what hopefully differentiates us from the terrorists?

Across the pond unarmed black men are being shot by the police whilst on the ground with their hands up, because officers are so nervous. Arming all service personnel at all times, even were there enough weapons to go round would inevitably lead to accidental deaths of innocent people. Even highly trained armed response units get it wrong sometimes (eg: the Brazilian electrician on the tube), the last thing we need right now is some tommy/erk or matelot blazing away at someone because that someone happened to be non-Caucasian & 'looked at me suspiciously'.

If more pistols were required, they really aren't all that expensive. The 25000 Glock 17s were GBP 9M. Say another 75000 were required, it would be about 25M, given the size of the order. Culturally however, it is unlikely to happen in the present climate.

Perhaps another way to approach this, is to allow servicemen to apply for the right to carry, through a very thorough training course and marksmanship exam. Make it impossible to pass without understanding the ramifications of shooting someone innocent under personal protection circumstances, and make sure they are proficient with the weapon. That way, those that feel genuinely threatened can be offered a route to a degree of comfort, and thus confidence. Lots of issues to be addressed, but terrorist abduction of servicemen changes things.

QUOTE

Arming all service personnel at all times,

Not at all what I said, please read my careful words carefully.

The" last thing " that some of us want to see is terrorism on our streets, compared with which the very very occasional blue on blue has to be seen as a random and rare event, rather than a deliberate and hate-filled act.

Seems very strange to try and abduct a serviceman in an area likely to have (armed) patrols with the Security state being 'Severe' isn't it?
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threat-levels

If they were waiting for a 'random' runner rather than a serviceman/woman or a member of a service family returning home, wouldn't you do it somewhere a bit more off base?

I know we can't always look into the mind of a 'terrorist' however they can't be that ignorant of the risk of being caught that they'd wait on base rather than down a country lane ... can they?
:suspect:

That just makes no sense. I think it's clear that they were out to get a serviceman rather than "a random runner", and I would suggest that the best place to find a serviceman is at a military base, no?

I did mean 'random runner' as in 'random service person' runner, but of course silly me; the suspects thought it easier to abduct a fit male on a run, on a military base, rather than a not so athletic service person or family member strolling home didn't they! :rolleyes:

Re my earlier post #16, Mrs TTN and I did the weekly Tesco shop this morning and I didn't see anyone from Culdrose in uniform, so I'm guessing the "no uniform in public" edict has gone out countrywide across all three services.

and one of them was "unbearded and wearing shorts" - stranger and stranger

according to the police there were a lot of people around by the local Costcutter - appealing for witnesses

Strilkes me that they haven't given any details of the car other than a "dark people carrier"- you'd have thought they'd have some idea of make and possibly the number plate?

BBC are saying "Police say they can't rule out terrorism but they're also saying there are also other plausible alternative explanations."

HH why take any notice of random cars as they pass, unless they're flying that black rag of a flag I would imagine that it was just part of the normal background mass of traffic that an airbase generates.

I was thinking of the guy who claims to have been attacked......................

Strikes me that someone hasn't been keeping up :p
It was a dark Ford Galaxy as mentioned in the link I posted 24hrs ago :rolleyes:

"Claims to have been attacked"
What you think he is making it up????:mad::mad:
And I've never heard such a stupid idea as arming all service personnel.
Questioning the reports that one was clean shaven and had shorts on as strange!
What because he wasn't wearing baggy trousers a black top holding a Koran he can't be a terrorist?

"It was a dark Ford Galaxy" - I think the police statement on the BBC said "like a dark Ford galaxy......"

"What you think he is making it up????http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gifhttp://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif"

The first ruleof policing is to trust nobody and check everything - regretfully all possibilities have to be looked at - there is a long history of people making things up to avoid consequnces of other actions, or looking for attention or........... the worst cases are firemen who set fires because of boredom or to show they can shine........

in a way I hope he WAS making it up - it would be a lot less worrying than establishing the fact that there are lunatics roaming Norfolk looking to target service personnel

I'm with you on that one, Heathrow Harry.
It is not at all uncommon for someone, under mental duress (for whatever reason) to make such a claim.
I do, however, have confidence that the police are seriously looking at that possibility.
As an ex-serviceman, I do NOT agree with the idea that service personnel should carry loaded firearms on civvy street.

HH, yes of course the police have to look at every possibility, including the very remote chance the guy made it all up!.
However the fact that it is a stated aim of these terrorists to capture a service person or policeman is well established with three known plots already attempted and foiled by security services.
As for why Marham, why not? can think of no better place to do it.
Remote roads, lack of cctv and very slow police response time makes it a perfect place imo.

So why do it 'on camp', highly likely to be under cvtv coverage, with the guardroom (armed guards) a couple of hundred metres away :suspect:

been there done that for MANY years as a RAF technician Lots of incidents that never got off the base (s)
hot pursuit under Scottish Law! that was an interesting hour indeed lol.

Actually armed Servicemen in UK have a pretty good record of not shooting civvies who give them the evil eye.

There were the paras in Shropshire, but they missed. There was the rather public incident in Gibraltar but they were highly trained. There was the unfortunate incident on HMS Astute (by coincidence I passed by immediately after the event), but of armed guards on the gate, the MPGS, the MOD Police, or Guards in London, nothing IIRC.

The difference is that the police were actively pursuing a suspect whereas military personnel are wholly defensive. When armed in Cyprus we kept our weapons holstered even in the absence of any orders.

SS, CCTV on camp? I wonder. We had one on our gate but it was only there to alert the gate keeper, no recording.

The incident was well away from the guardroom, and indeed well outside the security perimeter. As far as I can tell the nearest building was the local Costcutters, and I'm sure if they have CCTV it will have been well scrutinised by now.

Ford Galaxies aren't the commonest vehicles on the road, might be possible to identify this one by a process of elimination.

I hesitate to post this, but I might be about to disappoint the more uncharitable.

https://twitter.com/jamiegrierson/st...38961318879232

SS,
How can you assume the two perpetrators know what "On Camp" means? Do you know that there is CCTV around that area? - I think that's unlikely around quarters.

Marham has one of the best security set-ups ever by just having one road through it. Idiots like me realised years ago that there SHOULD be cameras on this entrances to the area and the mere presence of cameras (two per entrance) might prevent a lot of ne'er-do-wells venturing further.

Al R, that becomes more worrying and suggests some sort of surveillance operation as well. Beeb reporting it now as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-36873967

Also, BBC Radio reported yesterday that the serviceman had disabled one and the other ran to check the assailant was OK whilst the serviceman escaped. They also added that the RAF man had DNA evidence on him.

"been there done that for MANY years as a RAF technician Lots of incidents that never got off the base (s)
hot pursuit under Scottish Law! that was an interesting hour indeed lol."

So Gladrag, your telling us you had a right to carry and were armed on many occasions as an RAF techie and witnessed lots of incidents?
Well, we all did a stint on gate guard once, maybe twice a year but that's not what we're talking about. What you on about?
Unless you were an armourer and worked in small arms bay? and that's still a long way from what was being described.

lot of "may", "might" and "could be" in those links...

so far no solid developments..........

Dave, becoming a self-licking lollipop as the DNA evidence was a joke on here two days ago after the initial report.

There's some proper garbage being written here.

The scene of the attack is not on camp.

None of the OMQs or AMQs are behind the wire and I don't believe there were routine patrols in quarters on the day (my guess). I'm pretty sure there's no CCTV in the area near the Costcutter, unless it's on the shop front.

The part of the road that was closed was on Squires Hill, not within the village or the married patch, the local BBC TV report actually showed a camera shot looking away from Camp and there were no houses in view. A fact anyone of the jogging persuasion is grateful for as after a lap or two of the village Squires is a proper pain in the lungs..

How do I know the geography? I was stationed there for 9 years and 7 of those were in AMQs. I no longer serve but still live in the area and have occasion to visit from time to time.

Fret not insty as there will be quite a few on this forum who know the married patch, especially those who have flown or fixed Tornados. As for me, I lived on Gayton Avenue!

A slight digression for all those who still serve and whose service I value and respect, and whom I would like to see stay safe......

I am recently back from a far away overseas holiday (matters not where) and spent an evening at a posh shopping mall, with many eateries, a few miles away from a large (not UK or US) military base.

Scoffing our scram, myself and my wife played "spot the off-duty military dude/dude-ess". It is INCREDIBLY easy to pick you guys/girls out in crowd.

Your haircuts.
Your physique.
The way you carry yourselves.
And, most of all, you are always in groups of similar types.

I'm not suggesting much can be done, or that you hide (don't let terror win and all that)

I'm merely pointing out an awareness issue...civvy clothes rarely hides who a serviceman is.

Be safe one and all.

There was this incident.......

MoD armed guard shot wife's lover Husband killed himself after attack (From Herald Scotland)

QUOTE:

It is INCREDIBLY easy to pick you guys/girls out in crowd.


That is a theory. Unless a theory is tested it remains a theory.
Perhaps you should approach what turns out to be part of a civilian football team or a netball team and say:

"I know you are military!" and see where that gets you!

The IRA thought much the same in 1990. :( The two "off-duty military personnel" turned out to be Australian tourists.

It is a question of probability, though - TOFO's point is a good one to keep in mind, I'd have thought.

Mill for the ARRSE grist.. ;)

Why RAF hero proved MUCH more than a match for kidnappers | UK | News | Daily Express

<<However, the ultra-fit man, in his late 20s, is a gunner from the RAF Regiment, a tough ground-fighting force whose duties include protecting airbases. He used his training to overcome one of the attackers and knock him to the floor to make his escape as a knife-wielding accomplice approached.

Police hunting the pair are understood to have taken DNA from the serviceman after his knuckles were covered in blood spatters from punching one of the suspects. He is said to have been extremely shaken by the abduction attempt outside RAF Marham in Norfolk on Wednesday afternoon and is being counselled by an on-site psychologist. The RAF Regiment is a very tough and skilled group of soldiers whose training is more advanced than the standard infantry.

He used his training to overcome one of the attackers and knock him to the floor to make his escape as a knife-wielding accomplice approached. Police hunting the pair are understood to have taken DNA from the serviceman after his knuckles were covered in blood spatters from punching one of the suspects.

They form part of the SFSG, Special Forces Support Group, assisting the SAS and the SBS on certain operations. Essentially they are the ground fighting force for the RAF whose duties are to defend airbases and overseas air operations. Part of their training is learning how to survive to fight in all environmental conditions, including close combat tactics and lots of physical exercise.

Members of the RAF Regiment are nicknamed Rock Apes. The name is believed to stem from a regimental officer hunting hamadryas baboons in Yemen in 1952 who shot another officer by mistake. When asked why he had fired at his friend by a board of inquiry, the officer replied that his target had “looked just like a rock ape” in the half-light.>>

Been told to re assess our security whilst on & off duty for all military and civilian staff.
A few fatties at work now working on an exit plan, apart from dieting!

The RAF Regiment are not Rock Apes - The RAF Police however are called Rock Apes and have been for years!

RAF Police = Snowdrops

Pilot8: You might want to take advice over your last post.