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Originally Posted by Simplythebeast
(Post 9441898)
Incirlik. I wouldnt be surprised if there are Nuclear weapons stored there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb |
Surrendered then decapitated, I bet the next time there won't be any surrendering :(
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...cid=spartandhp |
And they want to join the EU....................
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"ISTANBUL ―Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan landed at Istanbul’s Ataturk airport Saturday morning and declared the attempted coup against his government to be a failure, but also a “gift from God.”
Thank GOD [see what I did there] for Brextit. |
Glad I was reading this thread. Learned a few things that disturb me.
Under the plan, nearly 200 B61 gravity bombs stockpiled in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Turkey would be given new tail fins that would turn them into guided weapons that could be delivered by stealth F35 fighter-bombers. What the heck happened to OPSEC? As to Incirlik, this dubious "connection" between an exile and the NATO base is a naked bit of political skullduggery. Smells a bit of the Iran Embassy line in 1979. No further comment, very concerned. |
And they want to join the EU.................... |
Turkey's uprising leaders land a helicopter in Greece and seek asylum | Daily Mail Online
Greece claimed it would have to consider international laws before returning them, although it promised to send the helicopter back. However, Mevlut Cavusoglu has said that Greece has now promised to return the 'treacherous soldiers' to be punished in Turkey. The news comes after Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildrim said the nation would consider bringing back the death penalty to deal with them, after it was abolished in 2004 Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4EbD2V8Dq Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook The beheaded guy appears in those shots to be still alive |
That's an occupational hazard associated with staging a coup. They surely had to consider the repercussions of a failed attempt. If not, it serves as a cautionary tale for the next group mulling an uprising.
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Not exactly what you expect from a fellow NATO country though, I would imagine a lot were simple Conscripts lead like lambs to the slaughter, the majority had already shown by their actions their reluctance to attack their countrymen and that their heart wasn't in it by handing over their weapons. It is just disgusting that they were not protected by the police who they surrendered their arms too.
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Off Topic - US Controlled B-61 Security
Lonewolf,
The sites at which these weapons are held has been common public knowledge in Europe (to locals living near the air bases) ever since they were deployed. In the days before Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HASs) were built - before mid-1970s - all those NATO countries allocated US controlled tactical nukes mounted QRA (N) from open ended dutch barns - illuminated at night - with the weapons clearly visible on those aircraft types that carried them externally. From 1995 they have all been held within Weapon Storage & Security System (WS3) vaults which retract into the floor of individual HASs. Full scale trials were done by the USAF bombing a HAS which destroyed the aircraft inside yet, when raised, the WS3 and dummy weapons were not in any way harmed. It is in the public domain - in an article published in 2015 by the Federation of American Scientists - that significant upgrades are being carried out to security at Incirlik and Aviano. Five NATO countries - Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and Turkey - still participate in the NATO Nuclear Sharing Program. WS3: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ity_System.jpg |
I read a story this morning claiming"dogfights" had broken out between jets from opposing factions during the coup??!!
I assume that is just hysterical and inaccurate reporting? Or is there some basis to this? |
Is the power back on ar Incirlik?
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Normal ops have resumed.
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https://www.opendemocracy.net/ay-e-k...Hk6xMk.twitter
..."Joining the echo of the calls to prayers were the loud noises of military jets flying over Istanbul skies. The combination of these sounds made me think that yes, these were the sounds of the funeral of free speech, critical thinking, and any other remnants of liberal democratic process in Turkey. I realized in fear and agony that whether the coup was successful or not, one thing was certain: there would no longer be room in Turkey for people who can listen, read, analyze, and think critically. With the siren-like echoes of calls to prayer and military jets, Turkey was becoming a land only for true believers. This did not happen suddenly. With the crackdown on media, academic freedoms, random arrests, and the increasing violence in the southeast provinces, citizens in Turkey have been facing major limitations on their basic freedoms for the past few years. The attempted coup d'état of July 15 is like the last nail in the coffin. Lying dead in the coffin was the courage to use one’s own understanding (as in Sapere Aude) that relentlessly resisted the rising tide of categorical thinking typical of true believers."........ |
Well this makes interesting reading
At height of Turkish coup bid, rebel jets had Erdogan's plane in their sights | Reuters At the height of the attempt to overthrow Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the rebel pilots of two F-16 fighter jets had Erdogan's plane in their sights. And yet he was able to fly on. The Turkish leader was returning to Istanbul from a holiday near the coastal resort of Marmaris after a faction in the military launched the coup attempt on Friday night, sealing off a bridge across the Bosphorus, trying to capture Istanbul's main airport and sending tanks to parliament in Ankara. "At least two F-16s harassed Erdogan's plane while it was in the air and en route to Istanbul. They locked their radars on his plane and on two other F-16s protecting him," a former military officer with knowledge of the events told Reuters. "Why they didn't fire is a mystery," he said. Fighter jets taking off from another air base at Eskisehir, west of Ankara, were scrambled to bomb Akinci and try to stop the rebels. However, the rogue aircraft were able to keep flying through the night by refueling mid-air after a tanker plane was commandeered, the first senior official said. The tanker aircraft was taken from the Incirlik air base in southern Turkey, which is used by the U.S.-led coalition to bomb Islamic State in Syria and Iraq. The commander of Incirlik was detained on Sunday for complicity, the official said. |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 9443584)
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ay-e-k...Hk6xMk.twitter
..."Joining the echo of the calls to prayers were the loud noises of military jets flying over Istanbul skies. The combination of these sounds made me think that yes, these were the sounds of the funeral of free speech, critical thinking, and any other remnants of liberal democratic process in Turkey. I realized in fear and agony that whether the coup was successful or not, one thing was certain: there would no longer be room in Turkey for people who can listen, read, analyze, and think critically. With the siren-like echoes of calls to prayer and military jets, Turkey was becoming a land only for true believers. This did not happen suddenly. With the crackdown on media, academic freedoms, random arrests, and the increasing violence in the southeast provinces, citizens in Turkey have been facing major limitations on their basic freedoms for the past few years. The attempted coup d'état of July 15 is like the last nail in the coffin. Lying dead in the coffin was the courage to use one’s own understanding (as in Sapere Aude) that relentlessly resisted the rising tide of categorical thinking typical of true believers."........ The Islamism of the National Outlook Movement (Milli GörüSHareketi), led by Necmettin Erbakan, embraced an anti-Western/European stanceand championed an orthodox conception of Islam from the 1970s to the 1990s. Although the prominent founders of the AKP emerged from this pro-Islamic movement, they learned the "limitation of Islamic politics" from the military's intervention during the February 28 postmodern coup. Subsequently, they departed from the National Outlook Movement, referring to themselves as the "innovators" and by embracing a liberal conception of Islam instead. |
Is it just me or did Mr Kerry get the tone wrong with his lecture to Turkey on the importance of democratic institutions. I can imagine what's perceived as hectoring going down badly in Ankara right now and possibly having the reverse of the intended effect.
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Originally Posted by ShotOne
(Post 9444646)
Is it just me or did Mr Kerry get the tone wrong with his lecture to Turkey on the importance of democratic institutions. I can imagine what's perceived as hectoring going down badly in Ankara right now and possibly having the reverse of the intended effect.
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For those among you who have worked with the Turkish Armed Forces what impact would have on moral of the Turkish Forces and how the remaining staff would react/ what they would do to earn back their self-respect?
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These make you wonder, shades of Romania
Turkey's President Erdogan's 'shopaholic' wife laid bare as 2m citizens earn £3 a day | Daily Mail Online Erdogan's palace: The £500 million mansion Turkey's president calls home | Metro News I do wonder how well these will be going down with the population, 2 million of which earn £3 a day. Not exactly a smart move to be rubbing their noses in it. |
I do wonder how well these will be going down with the population, 2 million of which earn £3 a day. Not exactly a smart move to be rubbing their noses in it. They will say "it all belongs to the state in the end" and crap like that although they know the end aim is "l'etat, c'est moi". They will say "this is all foreign lies" and so on and so on. |
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 9442046)
Glad I was reading this thread. Learned a few things that disturb me.
That we still have tactical nukes in Europe, and in Turkey, bugs me. That their number and location are apparently known and bandied about in the open press angers me. What the heck happened to OPSEC? As to Incirlik, this dubious "connection" between an exile and the NATO base is a naked bit of political skullduggery. Smells a bit of the Iran Embassy line in 1979. No further comment, very concerned. |
Originally Posted by glad rag
(Post 9445162)
Nuke armed stealth fighters, no no escallation there at all.....
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The BIGGER picture Lw.
Whilst I agree that one thing Mr P respects is a BIG stick [and the proven determination to use it if required] Escalating the ongoing situation in the region [no not Syria] by deploying stealth aircraft alongside bespoke modified nukes is hardly going to act an antacid for Russia is it? |
Poor buggers, sacrificed on the altar of restoring relations with Vladimir Putin...
Turkish pilots who downed Russian jet arrested over coup plot ? POLITICO |
Originally Posted by glad rag
(Post 9445238)
The BIGGER picture Lw. Whilst I agree that one thing Mr P respects is a BIG stick [and the proven determination to use it if required] Escalating the ongoing situation in the region [no not Syria] by deploying stealth aircraft alongside bespoke modified nukes is hardly going to act an antacid for Russia is it?
All that the new aircraft (F-35) program is doing is making sure it is able to do what current strike fighters can do. No loss of capability. You act as though it is current capability with that post. As you damned well know from our years-long F-35 thread, F-35 is not fully IOC (beyond modest B for the Marines in the Far East) nor currently deployed to Incirlik. Mountain out of molehill, GR. The core competency and raison d' etre of the F-35 is TACAIR. That it is to eventually become nuclear capable (tactical) is one of many capabilities, when they finally get systems integration sorted. Same story with the Ticonderoga cruisers. Nuclear capable, but their core competency was Surface to Air and Surface to Surface warfare, with a later mod of TLAM (conventional) for additional strike/Ship to shore as a replacement for the old long gun ship to shore capability. Tech changes in a continuum. We are drifting from topic, so that is all. |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 9445256)
Poor buggers, sacrificed on the altar of restoring relations with Vladimir Putin...
Turkish pilots who downed Russian jet arrested over coup plot ? POLITICO |
L50, seems too easy a solution to Erdogan's problems - especially when the major of Ankara knew all about it the morning straight after the coup - and that he was a member of Gulen's "parallel state". Yeah, right. Also note that the coup F-16s flew out of Akinc northwest of Ankara - a strange airbase for the F-16s which were operating on the Syrian border only 6 months before.
Cynical, moi? https://theaviationist.com/2016/07/1...military-coup/ https://www.rt.com/news/352050-turki...arrested-su24/ ...."The day after the coup attempt, the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, announced that the pilot who had shot down the Russian plane had taken part in the coup, and was a member of a secret “parallel state” organization allegedly headed by cleric Fethullah Gulen, who lives in self-exile in the US. “It is a ‘parallel state’ that has ruined our relationship with Russia. It was an incident that involved one of the pilots of this structure, 100 percent. He was one of the participants in the coup,” the mayor told CNN Turk. Melih Gokcek stressed that “our relations with Russia have been spoiled by these villains.”....... |
I am left with a gut feeling that "a large part of iceberg is not seen below the waterline".
Consider strange things like: a) List of thousands involved in the coup appeared over night, and most of them were immediately arrested. b) Pres. Erdogan "narrow escaped" (some 20-30 min) an attack on him while he and his family were on a resort. c) Erdogan's plane was allowed to fly safely though was allegedly escorted by fighter jets sent by rebel commanders. d) Head of general staff was taken but then surprisingly easily released (why do so if he might be a trump card in their hands?) e) Behaviour of puschists was strange in many aspects, e.g. they did not attempt to take or destroy the residences of president and prime minister (as they used to do during the previous coups) , and bombed the parliament instead (though nobody of c.a. 100 members staying these was hurt). Also the putschists did not block key airports (though allegedly AF were the "bad guys"), main roads and communication centres across the country. f) The putschists had no speaker, even more, the coup had "no faces". AF commander who was named later as a key person... who knows what he was "offered"while staying in the hands of "butchers". I am far from thinking it was a 100% show orchestrated by the current establishment, but the participation of the latter is quite likely. E.g., why not assume that the plotters and their plans were well-known and that somebody in their leadership (in reality loyal to the regime) told them "hey, guys, it's the right moment, let's start". Some of them started (maybe not all), but the other side was waiting for that, and now has free hands in doing whatever they like, especially as "people in the street" support them. P.S. IMHO, "Russian issue" had the least priority in all that. Erdogan and Putin resumed talking before the coup was attempted. Just, "BTW No. 1000, why not to arrest those two pilots as well". |
Turkey heading for a dictatorship?
With the numbers getting "purged" Erdogan will be difficult to shift. Turkey is heading for a dictatorship if not already there in some form.
Turkey coup attempt: Crackdown toll passes 50,000 - BBC News His hard-line Islamic reforms could really damage Turkey's future and it's position within NATO and the West in general. |
This is only going to go one way - and it ain't going to be pretty.
1. Round up all the "intellectuals" - aka anyone who may harbour secularist tendencies and make it very clear to them that their livelihoods (at least) depend on being good little muslims/AKP members. Stand by for gradual exodus of said people to Western / Southern Europe. 2. Watch as tourism receipts in Turkey plummet. Holidaying in dictatorships only appealing to certain type of tourist. Result - lots of unemployed, angry, shouty Turkish people (the less angry shouty ones having quietly left, see 1 above). 3. Watch as immigration weapon against EU deployed - unless you bung us some cash and/or be nicer to that nice Mr Putin (he's our friend really). 4. EU caught between rock and hard place. Syria not getting any better any time soon. Kurdish issue festering. EU anti-immigration issue boiling over. Wouldn't hold out much hope of Incirlik being an operational NATO base in 5 yrs. |
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-ankara-turkey
"Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, has declared a three-month state of emergency in the country in the aftermath of the coup attempt last Friday. The decision, announced in a televised press conference on Wednesday night, came after marathon meetings of the country’s national security council and the cabinet in Ankara. Article 121 of the Turkish constitution, which regulates the state of emergency, requires parliament to give its consent to the decision and sets a maximum period of six months for it. It allows the cabinet under the chairmanship of the president to issue decrees that have the force of law on matters relating to the state of emergency."............ |
ORAC: this will end well, eh? :p
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News.Az - Turkey to open Incirlik airbase for Russian aircraft
Incirlik Air Base is one of the NATO’s military bases in Turkey. Along with Turkey, the U.S, UK and Germany have deployed their military aircraft there They are going to party like it is 1870 .What could possibly go wrong ? The same players at the last big party in that area in 1870 all armed to the teeth in a small area . What could go wrong ? |
fitliker
Incirlik Air Base is one of the NATO’s military bases in Turkey |
Erdogan has a free reign now to introduce anything he likes for the next 3 months!
Turkey coup attempt: State of emergency announced - BBC News |
Well, in Turkey it's business as usual...at least for the past 700 years.
A few women in the office can't change the reality. Let's just hope that Turkey justifies its NATO membership before it melts down back into the Ottoman Empire. |
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Fitliker posted,
News.Az - Turkey to open Incirlik airbase for Russian aircraft Turkey said on Monday it wanted to cooperate with Moscow in combating Islamic State in Syria but denied having suggested it might allow Russia to use its Incirlik Air Base, near the Syrian frontier. .... In an interview with Turkish state television on Sunday, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu had appeared to suggest Ankara could open up Incirlik to Russia, a move that could raise concern among Turkey's NATO partners already using the base, including the United States. But Cavusoglu, in comments broadcast live on television on Monday, denied such an interpretation of his words. "We said that we could cooperate with Russia in the period ahead in the fight against Daesh (Islamic State)...I did not make any comment referring to Russian planes coming to the Incirlik Air Base." |
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