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Eye in the Sky - Alan Rickman's Brevet.
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Can anyone more learned than me identify Alan Rickman's brevet in the film "Eye in the Sky"? Despite reasonable military general knowledge, the insignia, and location was not one I'm familiar with. I did suspect a production error, but thought it a bit of an obvious mistake to make.
Attachment 200 |
British Army Parachute Wings Qualification Badge - it should be worn on the sleeve.
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It looks like a gold wire mess kit version to me.
The Rhodesians used to have an arrangement where someone who had distinguished themselves in action wore their wings above their left breast pocket - WOC - Wings on Chest. Is Rickman Army in this film or Royal Marines? Old Duffer |
He's a lieutenent general in the Army. I've never seen anyone in the UK Armed Forces wear parachute wings on their breast.
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Usual media artistic licence, aka getting it wrong. Mess kit / ceremonial wings rather than the regular uniform wings and incorrectly placed. Only time I have ever seen UK para wings worn there are in old photos of SAS personnel in WW2.
Makes you wonder how much artistic licence has been taken with the rest of the film. |
It makes total sense for it to be on the arm as a Pilot or any form of aircrew could also be qualified paras and you would then have a conflict as to where to place it with their other wings.
More http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/thr....237659/page-4 |
As realistic, in fact, as a lieutenant rpv pilot disobeying an order from a full colonel? Apart from that, a good movie imho.
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Early on in the formation of the Parachute Regiment, as whole Battalions were re-roled, Para Wings were worn on the left breast, before anyone calls "utter tosh" I have a phot of my father, Royal Sussex, who was re-roled in this form of dress.
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I have seen photographs of the tropical uniform worn by Lt Col B.K.Blount who was a member of SOE. His para wings are mounted above the right breast pocket, which I have never seen before. I have also seen pictures of other SOE personnel with para wings more conventionally worn above the left breast pocket. However, as in the case of WW2 SAS and early parachute regiment personnel mentioned above I think this practice was restricted to the early days of airborne formations, and certainly British para wings are nowadays always worn on the sleeve.
I understand the film was shot in South Africa. Do SA paras wear their wings on the breast, American style? If so that may explain the error |
Originally Posted by Sloppy Link
(Post 9355302)
Early on in the formation of the Parachute Regiment, as whole Battalions were re-roled, Para Wings were worn on the left breast, before anyone calls "utter tosh" I have a phot of my father, Royal Sussex, who was re-roled in this form of dress.
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The wings worn by Alan Rickman in the op picture are No1 dress Para Regt wings. AR is playing a British Army Lt. General who is based in London and is clearly wearing No2 dress. In this day and age, the time setting of the film, para wings are worn on the right upper arm sleeve.
On the other hand, they could represent the Light Infantry (Skirmishers) para wings, however, they are also worn on the sleeve. Para Wings can only be worn if you have qualified and have served in a unit where you could be expected to use your para qualification, otherwise it's just the lightbulb with no wings. http://www.diggerhistory.info/images...ades-brit2.jpg http://www.diggerhistory.info/images...rades-brit.jpg |
When I was in the Regiment, four new pilot officers fresh from Cranwell arrived at Catterick having done the "jumps course" as referred to by Melchett. All wore the full "operational" para wings on their sleeves, which was much commented upon. It was obviously incorrect, but somebody has issued them with these wings, so they carried on wearing them. One was still wearing them when he retired as a wing commander, as far as I am aware!
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Not seen the film yet, but from the context of the posts here, it could be that Rickman's character has made an operational descent - the protocol for people who do that is that they are authorised to wear their para wings on the left breast instead of the right shoulder.
Obviously we don't see many of those these days but it was commonplace during WW2. If Rickman's character is ex-Special Forces, they tend to put up the basic jump wings instead of SF ones on uniform to avoid drawing undue attention to themselves. |
From AARSE
""During WWII many airborne soldiers were given permission by their CO to wear 'Wings on Chest' this unofficial accolade was normally granted for operational jumps (in SOE this was normally granted after one operational jump). In the Airborne, RSR and SAS at the CO's discretion. At an investiture King George VI asked a couple of SAS Sgts if they were pilots - no sir came the reply we're in the SAS. The King ruled that only the RAF and Army aircrew could wear their brevets on the chest. This resulted in a long wrangle between the airborne, SAS, the War Office and the Palace - with Montgomery lining up with the Airborne Forces, after a long time there were perhaps half a dozen serving wartime SAS members who were allowed to carry on with the practice. In the 1970s in Rhodesia the Rhodesian SAS reinstated the practice of Wings on Chest (WOC) an honour that was valued more than some of the medals." Wings on Chest - Airborne - WW2 Talk |
Sub machine gun marksman badge lol, I bet no one ever got that with the Sterling.. The only people that I have ever seen hit anything at any distance with that weapon was the Star Wars Stormtroopers.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20070130060442 |
It's a film, it's not real...
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Subsunk;
Not seen the film yet, but from the context of the posts here, it could be that Rickman's character has made an operational descent - the protocol for people who do that is that they are authorised to wear their para wings on the left breast instead of the right shoulder. Obviously we don't see many of those these days but it was commonplace during WW2. If Rickman's character is ex-Special Forces, they tend to put up the basic jump wings instead of SF ones on uniform to avoid drawing undue attention to themselves It took a number of operational jumps to be entitled to wear the wings on the chest. It was not commonplace as operational jumps weren't that common. It's not a 'tendency' at all. http://i1.chroniclelive.co.uk/incomi...0/GL783831.jpg However, elsewhere; http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_20...27e0d39499.jpg Captain M.E. Anderson, SAS Wings, South African Pilot wings, member of the SBS SAS SA SBS Pilot - Great Britain: Militaria: Badges, Uniforms & Equipment - Gentleman's Military Interest Club |
Besides, rather than discuss the rights and wrongs of a film's costume department, howabout this one;
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...98_634x702.jpg |
Still space below his right shoulder for something shiny..........
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I recall Nietzsche once commenting on dress regulations thusly; "There are no facts, only interpretations."
:ok: |
He is in fact wearing the uniform of a Royal Marine Lt general, the wings I've never seen before.
FB:) |
He is in fact wearing the uniform of a Royal Marine Lt general http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...70_634x642.jpg ... and then there's the shirt & tie ... |
Sloppy Link;
Early on in the formation of the Parachute Regiment, as whole Battalions were re-roled, Para Wings were worn on the left breast, before anyone calls "utter tosh" I have a phot of my father, Royal Sussex, who was re-roled in this form of dress. The 10th (Sussex) Parachute Battalion was an airborne infantry battalion of the Parachute Regiment, raised by the British Army during the Second World War. The battalion was raised around volunteers from the Royal Sussex Regiment at Kibrit in the Middle East. Assigned to the 4th Parachute Brigade, they joined the 1st Airborne Division in Tunisia. The battalion fought their first action in Operation Slapstick part of the Allied invasion of Italy. They were then withdrawn to England at the end of 1943. Being held in reserve during the Normandy landings, their second action was in Operation Market Garden (Sept 1944) in the Netherlands. The battalion landed on the second day of the Battle of Arnhem and unable to reach their assigned objective, it was gradually destroyed over two days of fighting. The surviving men managed to withdraw into the divisional position at Oosterbeek. After holding a position in the perimeter, the handful of men left were evacuated south of the River Rhine. The battalion never recovered from the heavy casualties, sustained during the battle and was disbanded. The surviving men being posted to the battalions of the 1st Parachute Brigade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operat...British_forces It would seem that your old man might have been misled in the sewing department SL as everyone in these pictures have their wings on their shoulders; No 10 Platoon, B Coy, 10th Parachute Battalion, June 1944 http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psuaj75uym.png B Coy, 10th Para Bn, June 1944 http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g1...pslfz0qybz.png Larger versions available on page 2 of https://paradata.org.uk/media/6670?m...n=Group+photos You'll be telling us next that your father was always the only one in step ;) |
... and then there's the shirt & tie ... FB:) |
Prince Andrew appears on the preceding page wearing the uniform of the Royal Irish Regiment.
Regards Batco |
If he is supposed to be a Royal;
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/~/media/...3book/ch40.pdf
Parachutist Badge. The Army pattern parachutist badge, a parachute with wings, should be worn on the right arm 51 mm below the shoulder seam, by personnel who are qualified parachutists as follows: (1) Blue and white tunics. The full sized badge in gold on blue. On white tunics the badge is to be mounted on Velcro to permit removal for washing. (2) Lovat tunics. A two-thirds size badge in gold on green. (3) Mess jackets. The miniature badge (length 51mm, height 20mm) gold on scarlet. On white mess jackets the badge is to be mounted on Velcro to permit removal for washing. (4) Stone tunics and shirts. The full-sized badge in light blue/white on khaki drill. (5) Combat Dress (PCS Jackets and Windproofs). The full-sized badge in black on green. If black on green badges are not available, the full-sized badge in light blue/white on khaki drill may be worn as an alternative. Wot! No lanyard ;) |
Alan Rickman is not wearing any British Army uniform known to me and I was a soldier for 34 years. It isn't RM either. God knows what he's supposed to be.
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Looks a bit Irish to me, very much like casting a 70 year old to play a Colonel and the least said for the badge type and placement of the better.
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Out of interest, has anyone resolved the reason why RPV pilots and mission specialists wear flying overalls? Normal military working dress would be perfectly appropriate. I have this feeling that their airships have seen that the future is drone-coloured and want to preserve the concept of pilots being different.
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Alan Rickman is not wearing any British Army uniform known to me and I was a soldier for 34 years |
The shirt and tie are not from any British Army or RM uniform. Looks Dutch if anything. Dogs breakfast. Useless prop department.
Ttn. Ha ha ha ha! |
So what we're basically concluding is that British military uniform is anything but uniform.
You only have to look at the photo of HRH to see the full spectrum. HRH's shirt collar is a traditional pointed affair whilst the chap behind is sporting some Apprentice-esque spread collar that wouldn't be out of place in Leadenhall Market once the trading desks were closed. There's even a Navy chap in a skirt and heels behind them. In fact I think the only place I have seen standardised uniform is in McDonalds. And they get more medals there too :) |
Looks like HRH is wearing black shoes - is my memory playing tricks, ISTR wearing brown Oxfords with Service Dress, but it might just be age
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Generally speaking you are correct, but black shoes are worn with service dress in the Royal Irish Regiment.*
As Melchett said - military uniform is anything but! When I was a young Rockape I did the Infantry Platoon Commanders' Course at Warminster. Back in 1966 there were a lot more regiments than now, and when everyone turned up in service dress for the course photo there were hardly two the same out of around 60 of us! Freezing my whatsits off in a slit trench on Salisbury Plain in February was when the first germ of an idea of applying to go aircrew entered my mind! *Oops - wrong HRH - you were talking about young Harry. Maybe the same rule applies to the AAC! |
Harry was never badged as AAC; he always served as a Household Cavalry officer and would follow their Regimental customs; my experience of Army officers shoes were they came in many different shades of brown and bulling sometimes involved using both brown and black polish to achieve the desired colour.
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Ttn. We may have been on the same Warminster course!
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I thought the uniform was that of the RM, certainly his aid, wearing the same uniform has, seen in close up, the Globe insignia of the Marines on his lapels. It wouldn't be too unusual to have a Marine in charge of what really should have been an RAF operation anyway!? or do the Army/Marines also operate Reapers now?
The new VCDS appointed is a Marine, Gordon Messenger, don't know if he's a General or still a Lt Gen yet or if he has his obligatory Knighthood? FB:) |
genstabler - Jan - Feb 1966 - my syndicate officer was an RM captain who thought I was an idiot (not far out at the time!)
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Ttn. I think I must have been on the Warminster course before you. I certainly did Hythe at the end of 65. Bloody miserable weather as I recall, though I can't remember much about it at this distance. Good course though. It was my first formal military training for reasons I won't bore you with.
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