Balls - we are nothing like them. Nowhere near.

At least Mutley had one to wear. Many juniors will have multiple six monthers in sandy or kebaby places on operations (SHADER) and all that that entails. And nothing to show for it.

Jim30 hits the nail on the head - leaders, grow some and make a decision.

Nil Desperandum! It took some 50 years for service in the Suez Canal Zone 1951-54 to be rewarded with a medal. After a long campaign the Government finally saw the light in 2003. :ok:

Rumour control - well this is a rumour site - says work is being done on a SHADER gong, but there are disagreements over several areas such as whether you have to have been in Iraq or Syria or have flown over it, or do places like Jordan & Kuwait count as well. And if you go for a broader JOA award, do ground crew and support staff in places like Cyprus get it, and what about RPAS crews at Waddington etc etc etc. If that's correct, and there are substantial differences I can see it taking a while to reach agreement.

Melchy, you and I know those are merely the variables around which a reasonable set of criteria, based on appropriate merit towards the OP, can be declared. ;) However, going on the despicable way that virtually all retired Officers were treated by the criteria for the new LSGC medal, you can bet that the qualifying dates for SHADER will start from 1 APR 17, due to financial constraints! :yuk: :yuk: :mad:

OAP

There is a precedent with the SAM. If you went operational south of ASI, you got a rosette. If you stayed on ASI, medal only. Surely not that difficult to set a rosette trip line?

Also as per the OSM (Afghanistan) where service in country got you a clasp whilst service outside of Afghanistan just got you the medal.

Onceapilot,

I must confess that frankly the way we do medals is an utter mystery, that seems to defy common sense in the name of who knows what. All I can think is that money, politics and inter-service rivalry are all equal, or possibly greater, considerations than the concepts of risk and rigour. I've always said I thought we should ease up a little on our medals policy. In the current climate where CO's have increasingly limited authority to run their units as they see fit and where finance is primus inter pares, medals assume a potentially increased importance in recognising individual's efforts in a system that seems set up to make life as hard as possible.

I think you are quite right Melchy. Personally, I believe the RAF has been very poor at fighting for appropriate awards for its personnel. As for not awarding the LSGC to pre-2014 retirees on the basis of "cost, too-difficult" and "its a new award"... :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

OAP

As with the Cyprus 1963-4 GSM, awarded 2016, 51 years after the event.

Never heard of any 'campaign' for it, it took me completely by surprise.

I know that when it comes to staff work, an efficient staff officer will plagiarise previously successful work, but I have to say what I find really irritating in the case of medals is that almost every piece of work starts with the Churchillian quote on medals casting shadows as well as glittering. It's trite and it strikes me as a having been adopted as the default line to take when its all just too difficult and the criteria is set to ensure the lowest possible cost and effort to recognise service. You just know that any medals policy that starts with that is going to be contentious, vice any policy that they think will fly being rolled out with great fanfare about 'HM being pleased to .... '.

So Ebola was good enough but no an Op that has seen many individuals flitting between the ME and the UK for nearly 4 years? Utter bollax leadership from Senior Officers.

Questions about risk and rigour? Well, there was enough rigour on my last interaction that I shall not be doing another one. I had nothing left to give after 6 months.

Again, you are correct. There is an unspoken limitation on awards. Commanders soon know that it is useless to try and staff all deserving awards. I have seen whole campaigns where people within my sphere of flying operations never saw any recognition beyond the general "gong". It must be said that few service personnel receive recognition for their skill and bravery. There have been some high awards but, in my experience, the majority of skill and bravery went unrecognised by high command of the RAF. :* Just my opinion.

OAP

Its the same for KIPION where a substantial number of the RN MCMV force are onto their 5,6,7th plus tour in as many years in Bahrain, working in a very challenging JOA. A medal fr this specific deployment would go a very long way to assisting with goodwill in this very stretched and gapped pool of manpower.

'Ah, but it'll be too expensive - we are in austerity you know. Plus, it'll never fly with the medals committee in terms of risk and rigour as they probably haven't been living in a puddle, under fire, and in range of DPRK or Iranian ballistic missiles, sustained only by biscuits brown whilst working 25 hours a day having each lost at least one internal organ all the while performing secondary duties during the half hour they get off once every second month. And in any case, it's what they get paid for. What more do they want?' said an unnamed MOD spokesman dashing off to lunch at his club on Friday afternoon.

Binning the divisive Op Allowance would cover it.

BYO, you have to buy your own miniatures. I think you have to pay for medal mounting too. The actual cost, looking at commercial prices is not too expensive.

Pare it back to free issue for men, purchase by officers (as they do for uniform) and for retirees of all ranks.

You know why the Op Allowance is there? It is a UK Poli's ploy to bury the fact that Uncle Sams servicemen work income tax-free on Ops. The UK answer to that was an OA rate that just about covered a very junior servicemans tax level. This allows gob****e UK Polis to BS their way out of that criticism and, they have worked to make OA as limited as possible ever since. :mad:

OAP

gijoe.

As with your earlier post why would the answer be to stop certain people from getting a good deal? In this case an Op Allowance. Surely the answer is not to stop it for the few but to pay it to everyone?

It's the same with the medals we are discussing. Be it an LS for officers or a Shader medal. I would rather too many people got one than worry about a few hangers on getting one that are not truly deserving. There are ways to distinguish between those that truly operated in harms way and those that fulfilled a support role.

Whoever says we are becoming like the Americans is wrong but there must be a happy medium somewhere. Having just returned from a business trip to the US they leave us in the dirt when it comes to treating veterans. Is it really right that we can have people turning up to a rememberance service with nothing but a unit tie to show for decades of service?

I would not wish to devalue any medals that have been earned with blood sweat and tears. However, when I hear of people denigrating the efforts of others with less bling than themselves it makes me think very poorly of them. Any time someone on here refers to a Cold War warrior I think they come across as a total knob.

Timing is everything in the military. Anything from how you are streamed out of EFT to what Ops you partake in is often beyond an individuals control. I don't think it is too much to ask that anyone who has served should have something to pin to their blazer in November.

If you wish to believe that there are chinless wonders out there who actively avoid Ops then that's up to you. If people have no medals I would suggest it's more an accident of timing than personal preference.

Once again this is all just my opinion and you are welcome to disagree.

BV

BV, you have struck a chord!

I served for nearly 28 years and retired bare chested. A "Cold War Warrior" - yes - but I was proud to do what was necessary for all those years. Through no design of my own I was serving in MoD London during the two wars on my watch: Falklands and GW1.

Until recently I wasn't at all bothered by the lack of a "gong". However, I am now converted to your view that It would be appropriate for me to have something to pin on my lapel when I attend the local war memorial in November - and also a little memento for my boys, when I drop off my perch, to show their Dad did a bit of service.

At the end of the day, if it is now accepted that officer service is deserving of a LSGC gong then when the LS occurred should be irrelevant n'est ce pas?

Surely the point of Remembrance Sunday is to remember the dead? Not to try and tell everyone you used to be in the military. If you are that concerned that people know about your past, you have a veterans badge.

All medals come with qualifying criteria and someone, somewhere, always dips out. Where do you draw the line? The argument that it should be given to everyone could apply to every coronation and Jubilee medal ever issued.

Those advocating the issuing of a LS medal to retired officers, from what year would you count qualifying service? Or would you issue it to all officers who have ever served in the armed forces?