RAF Pilot FRI
Has anyone else heard about an FRI in the pipework?
Heard 3 years for 50K or if you are in your Return of Service 3 year extension beyond ROS for 50k Assuming it's taxed. |
I heard 150k post tax for a year.
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No, No it was £150K for loggies (especially Movers) and £5 plus a sandwich for the pilots. :ok:
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If/when the details are released I'll believe it.
Until then, wait out. |
What filling is in the sandwich?
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Depends who you ask to make it :E
S-D |
Never going to happen. Or at least, no time soon.
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Absolutely no rumours of such a thing around here.
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Wow 50k! The only thing that is surprising about this is how low it is. Are they really sitting around debating whether to offer such a paltry sum for 3 more years of service? They may get a few bites, particularly from people who are already locked into a ROS and haven't planned an exit strategy yet, but I doubt this amount of money will persuade someone who has already started taking steps to leave to sign on for even 1 more year, yet alone 3.
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Apparently AOC 2 Group said something about it at a crew retention briefing at Brize recently.
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... crew retention briefing ... |
So at 40% tax that's £10,000 a year for three more years, without annual increments potentially. That's going to keep no one in.
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Think the problem is they have got to do something. Whether this will be enough is another question!
Training 80 odd pilots next year and manning think they need 180! Now I'm no maths wizard but that dog don't hunt. |
JTIDS
Just because it wouldn't work for you doesn't mean it wouldn't work for someone else.
We are all different. BV |
The £80k helped my decision to stay. The absence of anything further in the future has also helped with my next decision to go. The utter shambles and chronic pay decline does the rest.
They need to get serious with pay and conditions as replacing people like me is not cheap, nor is it quick. |
With the number of TG1 and Eng AS disappearing at all levels, and not being replaced, the need for additional Driver (Airframe) is likely to be rather moot.
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The trouble is, the group any FRI would be aimed at are already pensionable under legacy schemes; leaving means a pension uplift that the FRI would have to counter for every year retained before you even start a retention intitiative - £50k isn't even close.
I personally like the idea touted by a brilliant mind in Manning a few years ago - if it costs £X millon to train a pilot, then pay 1/2 £X million to retain an experienced one for, say, 10 years. Apparently it wouldn't pass The Sun Test...but everyone leaving does??? |
I don't agree with them. At all, even though I may benefit. Why should I get paid more in one year than my station commander who holds the risk of going to jail for his decisions?
Blunt stick that I'm not sure is adequate or appropriate. I woild prefer to see it spent on some kit to make my life easier when on Ops. |
Well said VinRouge. For a second I thought I was on the Biz jet forum, not the military forum. Perhaps this is a bit simplistic or old fashioned, but surely if you're after more cash, join an airline, work in the city or just leave, you may not get paid the same as some people with the same skills outside (not all of them are on pop star wages) but you do get more than most, for doing a job that lots can only dream of doing.
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Originally Posted by VinRouge
(Post 9181842)
I don't agree with them. At all, even though I may benefit. Why should I get paid more in one year than my station commander who holds the risk of going to jail for his decisions?
I think history has shown how adept we are at prosecuting those below this rank for their decisions rather than those who 'didn't know', 'didn't understand' or 'didn't remember'. Anyway, we digress as the underlying issues remain the erosion of pay and conditions. FRIs are a sticking-plaster to address critical shortfalls; shortfalls that are usually triggered by our own self-defeating policies. |
Stitchbitch: surely that's the point isn't it? People are leaving for more money, theses forums (the Mil ones, not biz jets) are full of postings of how they've left & now have much better conditions & pay which is why we're heading for a manning crisis, in the air & on the ground. NEM, no incremental pay, no retention pay for 6 years for aircrew, the continuous wearing away of T&Cs is turning a trickle into a flood & one perceived solution is to throw money at it - although as usual they'll wait until disaster has happened before they offer any by which time it will be too late. Given how much & how long it takes to train us it would be more cost effective to pay a substantial sum to retain that experience instead of training a replacement which takes years & £millions. As Uncle Ginsters says that would not be 'Sun friendly' but it does reflect the value of the individuals concerned. The alternative would be to cease the constant erosion of T&Cs but that nice Mr Osborne is unlikely to let that happen.
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StitchBitch the problem is everyone is leaving! The RAF knows that there is a shortage but they are doing the usual thing or burying their head in the sand with a 'it will be OK'.
All it means is that people leave, the people left gets pissed off at working more, they leave and round and round it goes! |
no retention pay for 6 years for aircrew The RAF knows that there is a shortage but they are doing the usual thing or burying their head in the sand with a 'it will be OK'. |
Originally Posted by TorqueOfTheDevil
(Post 9182235)
Maybe after next week it will all be okay...at least Manning will be hoping so...
We have 'enjoyed' decades of cuts and quite simply we have no idea how to stabilise the manning figures as we only manage decline. If the SDSR froze us at the rough manning levels and capabilities we have today it would be carnage - when did we last manage to train enough to balance out the numbers that leave? |
Quote: no retention pay for 6 years for aircrew That's not quite accurate. I agree with the general thrust of your post though |
It's ok just this once - I'm sure Ascent have loads of spare capcity in "their" system and loads of spare QFIs just waiting in the wings.
Let's face facts. The RAF fell well below self sustaining levels years ago. Sadly it has taken this long for the Airships to wake up. Ps. A huge amount of Fast Jet QFI opportunities are about to open up in the ME. I know it's not for everyone but personally I love it. If they paid the FRI every 3months they might match the take-home. Too little to late and they only have themselves to blaim. Come on over chaps the water's lovely. |
Originally Posted by High_Expect
(Post 9182279)
It's ok just this once - I'm sure Ascent have loads of spare capcity in "their" system and loads of spare QFIs just waiting in the wings.
:D |
The RAF has shrunk from 50 thousand to a shade over 31 thousand in circa 9 years. In October, 150 left without being replaced. Stopping the decline in numbers appears to be beyond the capability or intent of manning. The RAF is now below what it should be in 2020. A change to the numbers next week may turn all the lights green again at high Wycombe for a while at least.
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Originally Posted by Selatar
(Post 9182342)
A change to the numbers next week may turn all the lights green again at high Wycombe for a while at least.
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Uncle G,
Do you honestly think we are going to get a new fleet of ac/capability........really? Especially now that the PM has just splashed the cash for 1900 more spooks? |
Yes. I do.
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I think MPA will be greenlighted.
The flying pay is being taken from the guys at the bottom and give to the guys at the top. Just storing up problems for 6-7 years time. |
We're going to get the P8. It'll be licenced built in this country, will have RR Tay and GEC avionics. Online 2030.
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G,
As you are obviously in the know, or you can see the future - could you let me know what the lottery numbers are for Saturday's draw.......cheers |
Not at all, CBTL,
This is a rumour site, after all, and those are my thoughts; our lack of MPA has exposed us and the higher powers know that needs to be remedied. I'm convinced the lottery is fixed...judging by my own poor record, at least. :/ |
Well given the following announcement....
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-pledges-178-billion-investment-in-defence-kit ...manning aren't going to want many pilots leaving! |
No, with 2 new Typhoon sqns plus the 24 crews for the P8, that's a lot of extra pilots (maybe 78), WSOs & don't forget all the maintainers.
Given earlier announcements re no incremental pay etc I can't help but think that there will be less emphasis in the SDSR on people compared to kit. |
For me it was the pension change. I don't have long to go and fully intend to leave with my tax free lump sum and pension for life.
Every other erosion of 'Ts and Cs' might seem just like whining and we've heard them all before, so I won't repeat. Sadly, on the Sqn that I work on, I'm seeing practically all of my generation leave ( mainly for the airlines, but not all) simply because they're tired of it all. I understand that the RAF is now short of QFI's, so I can really see problems ahead. And more alarmingly, a good majority of the generation below me ( 30-35) have their licenses ready to go. |
3-bladed.
I'm from that 30-35 generation, and I'm eyeing up my options outside, as I'm now approaching the end of my 2nd tour, and ROS. I've also seen my mates get made redundant during training. Something Will need to change soon, as there is a 3 year generation who saw their mates get made redundant, have experienced reductions in t&c / pension, who are eyeing up the airlines (who are recruiting!). |
They're recruiting and i'm applying!!! ;-)
Those cuts were harsh for all - I saw a lot of those guys through EFT, to a 2 year hold and potentially no aircraft to go to ( sdsr 2010). It was so obvious that there was an issue, but we kept pumping them through the training system, only for the inevitable chop to happen. That in turn caused misery, dis trust and a erosion of any loyalty left. When you add it all together, there have been large financial erosions ( we are still paid very well) and small and frequent changes in our terms and conditions without ANY say. Enough for me - I'm trying to leave as the fairly positive guy of 17 years, but it's getting tough! |
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