Bu**ar off...and leave your watch!
 

I have been retired from the RAF 2 and 1/2 years. I have been back to my last camp on several occasions as I was invited to attend beer calls for fellow comrades leaving bash. I normally have my name sent to the guardroom, pitch up get an 'Un-escorted pass' and walk down to the squadron. However, I returned once again last Thurs to be told I now need an escort! I informed said jobsworth that I had been retired a short while, I am on the system (Control Alt F9! whatever?) and I have not needed an escort before. Nope! I am now officially a potential terrorist, who cannot wipe his own ar*e without having to send for a Cpl (who invited me and had to leave his beer behind!) to walk me down.


Just short of 35 years service and all I get is a pension (nice one I admit) and a slap in the face. This is one of the prime reasons I am SOOOOOO! happy the Waddo Air Show has been binned! I cannot get on camp but come the magical weekend in July we opened the gates to Jihhady Jim and his band of cohorts one and all.


The Americans look after their Veterans, we could take a leaf out of their book!....


I am hoping to go back for a top table lunch soon...best I apply for a DV now then!!

Four Types, you are not alone. Lady in P&P used to work for me. I was, as you say, on the system. Still needed to have my daughter come and escort me.
."
Similar at Waddo where I had been an occasional visitor for I don't know how long "Same car Sir?, wait for your escort back to quarters"

Tricky one. Would you let all ex servicemen in unescorted? Some oik signs on for a few years then becomes radicalised after leaving.....and I'm sure you could think of other potential scenarios. At the famous Hants Heli Base (back in line AAC!) it was, until relatively recently, possible to walk onto the base from across the MQs outside the wire. The IRA missed a trick there I feel. I think those currently serving are entitled to good security, and if that inconveniences us retirees, well I won't be complaining.

I'm a civvy with one of the 'five camp' passes for Lincolnshire. At one which shall remain nameless I still had to turf up at the guardroom to be issued with a temporary pass after showing them my official pass which is subject to positive vetting...

I have to agree with Kintyred. A few year ago, the airline I worked for had us stopping over in Aldergrove. I asked beforehand of OC xx sqn (one of my old squadrons) if I could visit. I got to the guardroom, and was kept there, under armed guard, while my details were checked, and then escorted to the sqn. Quite right too. I wouldn't have expected anything less.

Herod, the other way round. I was at Norwich airport and one of the security men washed-Eng leader from, I think, 206. We chatted a while before the flight was called, then he searched me. As you say, quite right.

At last years V Force reunion I was chatting to a chap I had known when serving who had retired as the station commander of a V force base (I wont specify which). A couple of years ago he arranged a small reunion of retired officers and ORs which was to be held at said base. The plans were going well till he found out that on arrival the coach in which they were to arrive would have to disgorge its OAP pax, each of whom would have to check in individually, (30-45 minutes?)and an escort provided from the guardroom to the mess. He asked if he could handle the check-in forms in advance and take personal responsible for them during their visit to the base he formerly commanded, but was told this was not possible.

At that point he said "sod it" and they had the reunion at a nearby hotel instead. Dunno what rank you retired as Four Types but it looks as though four rings on your sleeve and scrambled egg on your hat wouldnt have made any difference!

I'm afraid it's only going to get harder to do this sort of thing. As bases are closed down, sorry rationalised, and we move to an all eggs in one basket posture, those remaining locations will only become more critical and therefore more sensitive and therefore harder to get on to if you aren't part of the permanent staff there.

Melchett, and you forgot to mention catering by contractor.

I attended a dining-in night at a joint unit that had sufficient real catering personnel to manage the function. The contractor refused help and insisted on doing it themselves. Despite a thorough briefing by the PMC they left a lot to be desired, in particular silver service was not done properly.

Unless you're a delivery driver/plumber/electrician/Uncle Tom Cobley and all. If you want to get into anywhere just turn up in a bread van.

Not at my location where the recent changes so that all non-resident military personnel have to give plenty of advance notice of visiting whilst contractors and delivery men have to be pre-booked at the MGR and accompanied at all times by the host.

There's been much wailing and gnashing of teeth by contractors, civil servants and those living on camp who don't have the experience to remember that this is just winding the clock back to the days that military establishments actually took security seriously.

PN,

Concur old bean, the standard of contractors is pretty poor and its only going one way as everything comes down to one or 2 companies. And as we close bases and it becomes harder for these companies to make an overall profit from the military, they are just going to rip us off, sorry, take the piss, er - no, sorry again, search for other ways to maximise revenue streams so that it's profitable for them to provide a high level of service. Oh look, a flying pig. But as a former staunch defender of the importance of the Mess and broader station life in terms of morale and unit cohesion, I hate to say it, but I'd now never voluntarily move back on base having enjoyed living in my own home in the community.

Quite right too.
You've just joined the great many of us unwashed Ex's who's only link with the modern RAF is our ever reducing friends behind the wire. No privileges; can't use the Mess, can't use the Gym. The door has firmly been slammed behind us.

But we are no longer required persons. No matter how attached or important you feel you are, you're not entitled to unrestricted access to any MOD place of work or even personnel accomodation. That was always the rule and now they're being properly enforced. Put up with it, or don't go.

Four Types

They say you should never engage in ad hominem argument on the internet but I feel moved to do just that in your case.

You don't say what it was that you did when you were "in". My guess is that it had nothing to do with the intelligence or security function. Nor do you adduce any evidence to show that you have any particular insight in to the way that global security risk has changed in the two and half years since you were part of Her Maj's finest fighting arm. The world is a different place now to an extent that is hard to persuade people of.

I suspect too that you have not yet conveyed the beef evident in your post through the appropriate channels to your former staish (or his or her successor(s)) in order to establish just why you had the experience you claim to have had.

Perhaps you did. In which case could we see the (suitably redacted) correspondence in order better to understand the reasons behind your disappointing visit.

Simply relying on the "Don't you know who I am?" approach without insight into the current motivation and methods of those whose job it is to seek to ensure the security and safety of all still serving, as against those who were once "in", runs the risk of beaching on the shores of Cilla (see Cabin Crew forum passim).

The assessment and management of risk is an inexact science, as well I know from 30 years in the reinsurance industry. It doesn't help, of course, that all of us, whether military or civvie, now operate under severe costs constraints. These narrow the options on the spectrum of Rolls-Royce security with absolutely no inconvenience to those sensitive to impairment of their enjoyment of life to indifference to the fact that the guy on the gate wears ISIL black and totes an AK47. We have to make do with something in the middle somewhere. Just where is, of course, a matter of debate but at least contribute something constructive to that debate.

Those whose job it is to keep us from harm deserve better than anonymous bitching on the internet. If you have any sensible ideas about how to achieve a proper balance between your social convenience and the risk of serious harm to others involved in the UK's military then by all means offer them to those who are responsible for risk assessment and management.

Otherwise STFU.

I don't think that anyone is arguing against the need for greater security. If you have no right or need to be somewhere then you don't go there, no matter who you were or are. It does go a bit pear shaped occassionally but it's better to be held up for the wrong reasons than to be let in for the wrong reasons.

Melchett: my bread van comment was purely tongue in cheek, although if you go back twenty years I bet I wouldn't be far off the mark.

Thing

Thank you.

You say in two lines what I struggled to say in perhaps too many.

A skill honed through many years of trying to get a word in edgeways with the wife...:)

Get on with your life. Better things to do than visit worn out messes and service clubs. If your mates are your mates they will drink with you wherever. Look forwards not backwards. Life should be an adventure and you don't have adventures when you are reliving the past.

Just saying.

PS

Security should come before convenience these days anyway.

Handed in my ID before Christmas, travelled down during resettlement for the section Christmas piss up and still technically in the RAF for another 3 weeks, had to be escorted back onto camp!!!! only been gone a week.


Never stepped foot back on a station since... except air shows.

I left 31 years ago, never went back and never looked back, move on with your life times have changed but enjoy the memories.

"thing" summed it up very well;

I concur - get on with your life 4 types - mind you after 35 yrs you have probably been institutionalised and can't cope without the military umbilical cord.

That reminds me does the RAF still lend itself to officers using their rank after they leave the mil?

Saw a reverend the other day who still calls himself Squadron Leader - :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

TOFO

"Security should come before convenience these days anyway."

And afterwards.

"Please adjust your dress before leaving". :}

Depends what the service clubs are. When you are offered a squillion foot of tarmac to fly off with approach aids virtually a stone's throw from one's abode it would seem churlish to refuse...:)
.

Thomas coupling

I have a vague memory that it is socially acceptable for anyone retired from rank OF-4 and above to continue to use that appellation in civvie life afterwards, i.e.

Lieutenant Commander - RN
Lieutenant Colonel - Pongos
Wing Commander - RAF

Those who didn't achieve such exalted heights before leaving should never try to boast of their stunted attainment afterwards.

Re the carrying on of rank, I understood that senior officers could continue to use their rank as a title. So Sqdn Ldr and equivalent.

I was introduced at a function once to an elderly gentleman, 'Captain ****'. I asked him what his role had been in the Navy to which he brusquely replied 'Royal Logistics Corps actually.' I didn't press the point that he perhaps shouldn't be using the title 'Captain.'

Cruel but I feel I shall file that one away for future use...:)

Four Types,

I can't quite work out if you're being serious or attemtping a wind-up. If you have business on a base, you can gain access according to the current requirements. If you want to go to the mess to socialise as a non-member, you have no right of access. And why should you have?

You can always get a mate to bring you in, but I would be very disappointed if a guard on the gate were to to open the gate to you on the basis of your "Don't you know who I am? I served here for 35 years!" Hardly counts, does it?

You left, you handed in your ID, you have no need nor right to enter the establishment. It's the same for all of us that have left. We are not a part of the Armed Forces and cannot, therefore, expect to be able to walk freely in their secure areas.

I'm surprised anyone would think otherwise.

So after 35 years of Service, that's how you view your co-workers. Boy do you have some high expectations. Make sure you insist on your civilian colleagues addressing you by your rank - or better still, calling you Sir - if you can get a job.

I once saw an ex-Wg Cdr join a company still thinking his rank counted for something.
I watched his steep learning curve increase daily as he found that all his "Good Idea's" were taken up by the bosses and had to be made to work...by him alone!

I knew a Wg Cdr who commited suicide shortly after he left, his wife said he just couldn't cope. He was a very decent man as well, I'm sure some here will know him.

Not all ex-Wg Cdrs feel the need to carry their rank around, thank you.

Thing, he was a good chap.

Plus an oddity, former army Captains from cavalry regiments, if they are working with HORSES!!

A certain Capt. Mark Phillips is an example.

The Army have always been a bit of a mystery to me. Don't they have Lance-Sergeants in some regiments? Having said that, I'm all for keeping tradition alive and the Army seem to be good at it.

Re the carrying on of rank, I understood that senior officers could continue to use their rank as a title. So Sqdn Ldr and equivalent. - Thing

I'm sure that we've been here before but, for the avoidance of doubt, the link http://www.debretts.com/forms-addres...ormer-officers shows that the ranks which may be used on retirement are actually:

Royal Navy - Lieutenant Commander

Army - Captain**

RAF - Squadron Leader

** Curiously enough since it is one rank lower than the rank indicated for the other two Services, but would cover both Thing's RLC man - and Mark Phillips!:ok:

That said, I know very few officers who either use, or insist on the use of, their rank - many Admirals and Air Marshals included....

Jack

Thanks for that UJ. I know an ex CAS and knight of the realm who is very laid back and unassuming. But never mention that he's retired as he will point out in no uncertain terms that in actual fact he's not...:)

For a few years after I'd left the RAF, I was still able to gain access to the station as I was a civilian member of an on-site club and had the relevant pass.

But I watched the place getting tattier and scruffier as the years went by, with fewer and fewer people in blue around the place. Not that they were in the latest fashion of combat pyjamas, they simply weren't there, although a handful of scruffy civilian contractors were wandering around instead.

A real shame. So I left the club, handed in my passes and preferred to live with memories of happier times, rather than the reality of 21st century squalor...:(

Worst ever was going back to RAFC a couple of years ago - to find no aeroplanes (apart from a few plastic pigs) and no students. The place was like a morgue.

My dad was one in the Scots Guards. Wore 3 white stripes and was in reality a corporal. "Real" sergeants wore gold stripes.

Re retired rank. An admiral, KCB, moved to a Cornish village after he retired. He introduced himself at the pub, and the landlord asked him how he preferred to be addressed. He replied "Admiral, or Sir John - either is fine". He was somewhat taken aback on his next visit when a regular called out from the corner "Hello sailor!"

I think we met and I share your sentiments.

I have, over the years, come across a couple of ex-RAF people who signed themselves as "Flight Lieutenant ********* RAF (Retd)" in correspondence.

My experience
 

8 Sqdn birthday bash at Waddington this year.Organisation was brilliant waited at the Officers mess for a large coach which took us all to the airfield where a big hangar had been decorated with a "Sentry"and a "Hunter "plus of course all the dining tables etc,meet and greet with a G&T and a mingle with the people in blue uniforms then the dinner with anecdotal stories read out!All in all no complaints ,there were ten of us old OAP types and we actually wandered about to the 8Sqdn HQ were there is a memorial wall with members names on it.I believe there were about 500 people there and it was brilliant .

Union Jack said:

Royal Navy - Lieutenant Commander
Army - Captain**
RAF - Squadron Leader
** Curiously enough since it is one rank lower than the rank indicated for the other two Services, but would cover both Thing's RLC man - and Mark Phillips!


And James Hewitt.

Seems that friendship with da laydees of the Royal Family confers on some the right to continue to use one's otherwise undistinguished military rank in private life.

(Rumour has it that Hewitt failed the exams to Major three times and that he finally achieved that rank after leaving the Army. Quite how or why I can't fathom).

I can't hear the rank of Major without thinking of Major Major Major Major in Catch 22. Shortened of course to Maj. Major. I am a bad person.