PPRuNe Forums - Shackleton crash in Harris 1990

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Thanks for the insight; I lost an old mucker of mine in this crash, and always wondered why the Radar had not been used to avoid the hill. I'm not familiar with the AN/APS 20, but would have thought that it would still see the radar shadow (cutoff) from the hill. Its not the first time that 'new brooms' have ignored hard won experience; sad that in this case it appears to be a major contribution to the accident.

They AN/APS 20 was a fickle beast as were the engine driven generators whose output would vary with engine rpm. The radar required a stable power input that was achieved with an engine Rom of 2175. Now we never considered how the radar would operate with higher, lower, or changing rpm. It was a given that it was 2175 or nowt. Maybe 2175 gave optimum performance or lower rpm may have caused it to trip and higher to be damaged.

Whatever the facts we never queried the SOP to shut it down once we had finished our task. As for not seeing land, that is a nonsense as we used geographical features as reporting reference points. Certainly it was not effective as a mapping radar but could function as a coarse terrain warner.

Shackman has it right, .

Hello everyone,
Im an aviation enthusiast from Isle of Lewis and along with others are thinking of a memorial for crew which is acceptable and accessible.
We have both main wheels from wr965 and various other items saved from scrap man.
The story of Aircraft and its crew to be never forgotten and those brave crew of shacks .
Respect ...

Dear All
I’ve just read this thread with great interest. I suppose, like Jeremy, I’m also still looking for answers as my father was also on that aircraft; I’m Roger Scutt’s daughter. If anyone has any other information not already discussed on here, please message me if you feel so inclined.
Many thanks.
Fiona

Quote:

Originally Posted by FJW (Post 10441093)

A few months I purchased a book (I have not begun reading it yet) "Lost to the Isles by David W. Earl & Peter Dobson - ISBN 978-0-9523928-8-0
That book has a 19 page chapter about the accident (with pictures - including the crew). Hopefully you will find that helpful.

FJW - tried to send PM, but your inbox was full. I was on 8 Sqn and flew with your father.

Thank you, I don't know how to fix the inbox problem!
My email is [email protected], please resend if you get a minute.
Thank you,
Fiona

Thank you for this - I will look it up.
F.

Fiona,

No one can send you a PM because you are a new user. I think you need ten posts to be able to send and receive PMs.

Your only alternative is to post an email address. If you do that I suggest you obfuscate it, using spaces, AT etc. and I suggest you use a specially setup temporary address - do not use your normal email address.

Quote:

Originally Posted by India Four Two (Post 10441619)

India Four Two, thank you for this, I've done a couple of quick replies to people but I don't know if they have worked. I'll see if they reply!

Fiona,

Sorry I missed reading your post before I posted mine. You might want to consider changing your email address in the future - you may get a lot of spam now. ;)

I hope you get some good information about your father.

Quote:

Originally Posted by capewrath (Post 10441428)

Cape, would that be the same Pete Dobson that was on XV Buccs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by matkat (Post 10442845)

Cape, would that be the same Pete Dobson that was on XV Buccs?

Or was that Mike Dobson?

Matkat got it wrong, it was Peter Robson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by matkat (Post 10442845)

Cape, would that be the same Pete Dobson that was on XV Buccs?

Unfortunately the book gives no information on him.

Further to my post #35 of 10th April 2018 I wrote to the First Minister of Scotland on 10th Dec 2018 and pointed out the following,

Quote:

Over the years Lord Advocates have not shown any appetite to hold FAIs into a military death in Scotland. I now call on the Scottish government to set up a Public Inquiry into how it has been possible, for forty years, for successive Lord Advocates to avoid holding any discretionary FAIs on public interest grounds for military deaths in Scotland. According to a recent report, 'Beyond Endurance - Military Exercises and the Duty of Care', dated 24th April 2016, there were 13 military training/exercise deaths in Scotland between Jan 2000 and Feb 2016, not a single one resulted in an FAI (confirmed in an FOI letter from COPFS). In 1990 when a Lossiemouth Shackleton crashed on South Harris, killing a crew of 10, the UK parliament was informed that an FAI would not be held and the Lord Advocate does not have to give reasons. From April 1977 to Nov 1987 RAF Lossiemouth lost eight Jaguar aircraft and nine crew members, but no FAI. Of these losses Lord Mackay of Clashfern has informed me that he remembers these accidents and remembers discussing them with a senior RAF officer in Glasgow, but has no memory of discussing an FAI.

In the First Minister's reply it is pointed out that,

"Any decision by the Lord Advocate in his capacity as head of the systems of criminal prosecution and investigation of deaths in Scotland shall continue to be taken by him independently of any other person"

Up until mid 2017 there was little chance of any independent inquiry being carried out in Scotland for a military death, probably due to a Lord Advocate/MoD protocol.

DV

Moving account from Heavy Whalley. MRT to the core. The Scottish teams had a tough few years and I know it affected some deeply and still does.

There will be a memorial in Northton, Isle of Harris, on Saturday 30th April 2022 the Seallam Centre Car park at noon. They are unveiling a ground memorial.

Just not my time..

I flew the same sortie the day before..
I was meant to fly on this mission..
I had an abscess in a tooth, swollen face and was told to go sick..
I was a very junior squadron member..
I will never talk about squadron personalities..
It was a real shock to the squadron - the accident and aftermath..
Ten years later I suffered from 'survivors guilt'..
It was not my time..