On a light note... Anyone done 1000mph?
 

According to Wg Cdr Andy Green, of Thrust SSC fame, "Bloodhound represents the absolute limit of modern technology. Nobody has ever reached 1,000mph in the thick air at ground level, even in a jet fighter".
Of course, ground level extends up to 29,000' at Mt Everest but, discounting that point, I guess you could say he really means indicated air speed? On that basis, even I have handsomely exceeded his Thrust SSC record at amsl elevations 3000' lower.
Anyone claim 1000mph IAS:ok:?

OAP

That's 869 knots - Leon reckons he's done 870 kts in an F3.

Certainly have and with a weapons fit. Have done faster in clean fit, but don't like to talk about it!

As for 'Dead Dog' - I usually treat most things he's said with a pinch of salt! :ok:

LJ

Yep, that is the sort of KIAS we are looking at. Always thought the F4 might be in that bracket?:ok:

OAP

AHA! Come on you F4 guys!

OAP

PS, love the cartoon, F3WMB.

The most slippery ones were the ones from the factory at Warton. No pylons and fuel control units not wound back!

I did hear anecdotally that a crew did over 1000kts and that the pilot thought he was doing 999kts - unfortunately the numbers stopped at 999 in the HUD and the Nav's Tac displays showed somewhat more in TAS at low level over the sea!

Here is a 'slippery one'...

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73...7bebf4061a.jpg

No Norris McWhirter around at the time, though...:sad:

LJ

Nice pic Leon! Amazing what a really good supersonic pressure recovery intake and afterburner system can do.

OAP

I collected an F3 from Boscombe once which must have had some tweaking. Had to throttle back in dry power S+L as I was already nudging supersonic.

Yip, those were the days - fast black to Warton and a brand new shiny clean jet. I remember significantly over 900 and as we had fuel for a spot of day VFR TOO over Blakeney we rolled in behind a Jag with about 490kts of overtake.

I picked up a few new ones. Remember asking for a climb on departure (after the inevitable low pass for the workers) to 33,000. Warton Ground came back with "Manchester want to know your outbound heading" "Vertical!", and they allowed it.

Most people thrust their hands downwards when the trawl for Thrust SSC came around the squadrons. To give 'Dog' his credit (the 'Dead' was dropped at that point as most thought he was going to cop it in Thrust SSC) both he and a few others put their hands up and volunteered. When 'Dog' got the job there was a certain individual that came in one of the 'runner up' slots that found it hard to take and started to try and break all sorts of records in the Tornado F3. I heard that he went super quick at low level and then turned his attention to zoom climbs. I hear that as he got towards 70kft the poor old RB199s gave in and had a bit of a cough and splutter. The result was a couple of rather bent engines and a sacked pilot - I understand he was nicked when they pulled the accident data recorder and milked it!

All anecdotal as I wasn't on the Wing where this individual flew. Luckily for all it didn't end as badly as it could have.

LJ

IIRC the F4 was maxed at 750.

PN

Yes, I understand that the Spey engined ones were good at low level but due to the intakes that resemble the next King's head appendages, then they topped out around the 750 mark. I also heard that due to the small fin on the 'Tomb' that it started to try and fly sideways at very high IAS :eek:

Any experienced Jehovah drivers want to chip in?

LJ

A mod told me how he once did 1,000 mph at 100 feet in the middle of nowhere. The limiting factor was the intake temperature.

:E

Well, the F3 was RTS at 750. I remember the shock I got doing a chase down oversea, flicked the HUD from mach to IAS and saw 835 accelerating. I had no idea anything could actually go faster than RTS, nevermind lots faster.

The Sageburner F4 recordbreaker managed 784 kts, with one pilot only, stripped down and polished (and they crashed the first attempt). The F3 was pretty wheezy at altitude, but LL was awesome.

OP

Official max chat on a F-4 at less than 200 ft 902 MPH, Operation Sageburner by a USN YF4H-1 in 1961.

Official FAI World Record at low altitude is 988.26 MPH by a civilian owned and highly modified F-104 in 1976, though the FAI have disbanded the class of record for turbojets since then. The F-104 in question did do an earlier record attempt where it is reckoned that it reached 1010 MPH, but the timing equipment failed so the record didn't stand.

Quote BF "A mod told me how he once did 1,000 mph at 100 feet in the middle of nowhere. The limiting factor was the intake temperature."
Hmmm, no intake temp gauges in Tonka AFAIR. However, the inlet temp is critical to engine operation/damage and so, I always assumed it was reflected by the RTS limits?;)

OAP

F3WMB, IIRC it was 750KIAS Vno when I first started on the jet and then it was dropped to 725KIAS as there was no Vne. I also met the boffin that designed the intake during a visit to the squadron by some of the factory staff. He said that they had limited the aircraft Vne due to the intake design as it hadn't been tested any faster - he claimed it being capable of much more than the imposed Vne (and he was right as many proved :E).

Yes, the old HUD switch between IAS and Mach caught many out over the Nevada desert floor at ~6,000ft up. You could be doing 690kts near the ground at 250ft and be supersonic! That little chestnut did for a Winnebago on a desert road in the exercise training area when a F3 went over the top at ~720kts. Just don't ask how I know! :ok:

LJ

I do miss the 'old girl' at times. Chasing down B-1Bs off of the coast of Denmark was immense fun; as was shouting "Beep! Beep! Coming through!" over the common exercise frequency as we took guns footage on each of them.

For what it was designed for: Long-range loiter way North of Scotland with the ability to chase down BLACKJACK, BACKFIRE and FENCER. Then the F3 was pretty damn good. It wasn't a dogfighter and was pretty poor above 35kft for any subsonic. But at low level it was the fastest of anything before or ever since. The F111, B1-B and the F16 drivers always looked surprised when we chased them down at low level over the sea (or in a supersonic overland training area).

Now, I'm off to my armchair to smell of wee...

LJ

The F-4K and M max IAS was, from memory, 750 kts at sea level but increased up to 810 at 11 000 ft (not sure why). Went along nicely at 750 KIAS at low level even with 2 tanks.

I will need to dig out the books but IIRC the F3 Vne was originally 800 KCAS (no tanks). Would be interested to know the dive angle for some of the higher speeds reached that are quoted above because when we did the clearance to 800 KCAS with 2 Skyflash and 4 AIM9s it was not that easy to get there.

My 870 was in K022+ at straight and level, at low level and with 2 large orange carrots hanging out the back - no dive required and the Skyflash fins weren't buzzing either!

LJ

That would be "Gun" singular Leon.;)

OAP

I can't compete with LJ but did once have a go at the 810 kts at 11,000 ft in an A-fit FG1 (no tanks). I got it slightly wrong and ended up with 825 kts at 15,000. It was interesting to say the least, mainly because I hadn't given any thought to how I was going to slow down. I decided to try a gentle reduction to min burner for starters. Good decision, because even that produced a deceleration akin to taking a cable! Didn't try it again...

The F-111 was good for M1.2, about 810 on the deck.


At height for engine airtest, we would try to achieve M2.3 before the "BANG" of a compressor stall.

Maximum allowable airspeed for these aircraft:

F-4C, D, E = 750 KIAS
F-14A = 780 KIAS
F-15C = 800 KIAS

Unfortunately I can't find my data for the MiG-23 but I believe it was above 800 KIAS as was the F-111 IIRC.

Normal bird strike requirement for the canopy on most aircraft about 450 KIAS for a 4 lb. bird. I always kept that little item in mind during high speed low level flight.

BBadanov you got there as I was posting.

BBadanov

Have heard of higher speeds being achieved post-AUP engine upgrade and in clean G-models, and of high 800s achieved at Red Flag.

An unnamed Nav has told me of a particular occasion where a piece of the wingbox fairing was missing and paint had peeled off the leading edge of the fin after a particular post mx flight test off the Sunshine Coast in the late 90s.

He also said the main speed limfac was windscreen temp?

Yes, windscreens were an issue. I remember a guy coming back with the central screen blacked out whilst he was going v fast IAS in the North Sea ACMI. He said he came home somewhat gingerly after that!

LJ

I can't imagine that an Eagle would be a very comfortable beast at 800KIAS at low level - Buckaroo comes to mind! :eek:

As LJ states, the F3 HUD stops at 999kts...the TV tabs don't! The Irish sea was littered with fresh F3 paint after we'd picked them up and given them a quick "shake down".


A 'buddy of mine' was chasing down another 'buddy' on a "Day Tactics" sortie... guess which one was me! Anyway, it started at 30K and someone dived for the deck, passing 3000' yelps of "SPEED" were coming from some ones back seat. The HUD was in M and reading 1.8+ a quick flick to IAS revealed total horror (No we weren't vertical).


The ASRAAM seemed OK but the RAIDS pod was :mad:

All you non hacking oxygen suckers...how about hovering...or flying backwards?

Guess we'll figure out who the Harrier lads are...

On a light note... Anyone done 1000mph?
 

I once did a tail slide in a Hawk. Does that count as flying backwards?
I've done a stall turn as well.
I can't say I really planned to do either.
Never been 1000mph. Can't actually remember my fastest IAS in a Jag. Somewhere in the low 600s maybe? But I do know that in Oman when the F3s had their weeny tanks on they were limited to 0.9M and our tactic was to outrun them (0.95M limit for us!).
You have to take what you can get sometimes.
BV

You can't go backwards very fast in a Harrier :sad:

http://www.ukserials.com/pdflosses/m...0628_xw769.pdf

Bob V...you get a pass for the tail slide...was the seat pan missing after the ride? Hope you salvaged the skivvies?

On a light note... Anyone done 1000mph?
 

A brief moment of panic followed by some heavy breathing. Luckily the Hawk reminded me on each such occasion that it'll let you get away with murder if you screw things up. Or your student does...
BV

F-8E SAC page 4: max speed S/L 651 knots; 35,000' 984 knots.
http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-8..._July_1967.pdf


F-15C SAC page 4: max speed 35,000' 1,309 knots; 45,000' 1,340 knots
with CFTs: max speed 35,000' 1,124 knots; 45,000' 1,102 knots
http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-1...ruary_1992.pdf


F-14A SAC page 4: max speed S/L 794 knots; 35,000' 1,170 knots.
http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-1...April_1977.pdf


F-14D SAC page 4: max speed S/L 740 knots; 35,000' 1,196 knots.
http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-1..._Declas%29.pdf

As well as doing 1000kts, the F3 will also happily (well, relatively happily) do 0 kts. I learned about this when I once let my "experienced" Nav have a go at poling a twin-sticker:

Nav: "Can I have a go at some aeros?"
Me: "Sure. You have...."
Nav: "I have. Ok, I'll just try a loop to start with....."
Me: "Ok, stick the burners in, wait for 300kts & pull to 4g, then transition to 19 units over the top"

Nav pulls weakly to about 3g

Me: "Pull a bit more mate...."
As we reach the vertical:
Me: "Keep pulling"
Nav then slackens the pull
Me: "PULL!"
Followed by click, click as Nav brings throttles out of burner!

Me: "F*@k"
Nav: "You have control"
Me: "I doubt it"

As the airspeed decayed below 50 kts in the HUD, somewhere from the deep recesses of my brain, I remember hearing the U/P drill of "Centralise & let the aircraft fall out of the U/P". So I did. My QFIs would have been proud.

Everything went very quiet as the jet stopped, deciding whether to hammerhead or fall on it's back.....

Me (silently): "Please don't spin"

After what seemed like an eternity, it tailslid, then oh-so-gently pitched forward in a lovely (& completely unintended) hammerhead/ Su-27 "Cobra"-stylee manoeuver.

Fuel came out of the intakes in big clouds of vapour. I was pretty sure that wasn't supposed to happen.

The CWP lit up like a Christmas tree as various systems tripped offline... SPILS.... CSAS.... Pressurisation (!!?)....

.... but the thing kept flying & the engines kept turning. As the airspeed increased, presently there were enough Bernoullis going over enough control surfaces that the Lift Pixies resumed normal service.

We went home after that :ouch:

Have heard of higher speeds being achieved post-AUP engine upgrade and in clean G-models, and of high 800s achieved at Red Flag.

An unnamed Nav has told me of a particular occasion where a piece of the wingbox fairing was missing and paint had peeled off the leading edge of the fin after a particular post mx flight test off the Sunshine Coast in the late 90s.

He also said the main speed limfac was windscreen temp?
http://www.pprune.org/images/statusi...er_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/report.gif


F/A-18
Not sure, but possible. My time was with P3 and P103 engine. The G was I think P107, and AUP aircraft were P109. So probably better performance.


Yes windscreen temp was sometimes a limiter, but we did go through several windscreen mods too!
I have just been out boating today with a bunch of ex-111 (ex-Pig) mates, so sorry I couldn't consult them, but I do remember a rundown stopwatch triggered by skin temp - one of these guys remembers all the numbers - but it had something to do with 214 degrees (I think) and counted down from about 300 to 0 seconds (I think). Someone with more brain cells will remember !! Our young Oz UAV mate will remember the details...

Not much.

TF30-3/103 10,750 lb (18,500 lb)
TF30-107 12,500 lb (20,350 lb)
TF30-109 12,000 lb (20,840 lb)


Too bad they weren't fitted with the engines from the F-111F...
TF30-100 15,000 lb (25,100 lb)
TF30-111 17,895 lb (25,111 lb)

Leon, I gather that Bastard Bill tried to throw the book at the 'zoom merchant' to whom you refer, for exceeding the Release To Service limitations......

Until someone happened to mention the Lightning - and whether 'reheat rotations' were in the R to S. BB allegedly got the message and perhaps coincidentally the witch hunting stopped shortly afterwards, with a comment "Just don't do it again!".

All the above is anecdotal, I hasten to add.

ExAdvert, that reminds me of the time I saw rather more AoA than IAS in an F-4 after having gone vertical during aggressor training....I'd been looking over my shoulder and subconsciously pressing forward on the control column as we climbed , so that we went straight up rather than gently pitching over to the inverted as had been my intention! But the low speed recovery worked fine, no dramas at all...... The F-5 mate merely called "Are you coming down any time soon?"....