What a waste, what a fool.
 

From the Daily Hate.

Sex boasts of RAF Special Forces pilot kicked out over cocaine binge on base during pre-Christmas party | Daily Mail Online

Oh dear.
 

It's odd in a situation like this when you know the guy. I for one will not pass judgment on here.
BV:oh:

BV, fair comment, you know the guy but the reputational damage to the RAF is immense.

AP
 

I disagree. An entire organisation can't be held responsible for the actions of one of it's employees.

Trying so hard not to get sucked into any forthcoming debate. I think I'll just keep schtum now.

BV:O

That ideal world does not exist - ask any political leader. The public are now aware of JSFAW - 7 Sqn and RAF Odiham 'junkies' flying helicopters at low level day and night. The damage to reputation is massive and the corrosive effect worrying. Especially as the story suggests that this was not a solitary hidden secret but rebellious behavour that the individual sort to share with his peers. If you can call blunties peers. It will take some time for the dust to settle on this one, especially as targetted consequential CDT can be a very public affair.

Reputationally, this sad incident will not do the RAF any good; arguably more damage has been inflicted on us by the photograph of the chap carrying an M&S suit cover...the Army will have a field day!

ISTR it's not the first time it's happened?

The story appears to be limited to the Daily Mail today. The others will probably jump on the bandwagon tomorrow but the 'news' will be lost in pages of shock, horror, we have had a storm. Mother Nature may provide damage limitation.

I'm going along with BV and stowing the judgement, irrespective of the fallout. But given that it all appears a little clear cut, black and white, perhaps it is worth noting that quite often we get reminded that we are not the paragons of virtue, we think we are and we portray ourselves as.

I'm damn sure all of us that served saw behavior from time to time that made us stop in our tracks and think WTF!!??

Spectacular way to screw up his flying career for ever...lessons learnt might be more useful that wrathful condemnation.

With the MoD anti-narcotic regime that is in place with the Armed Forces; specifically the Compulsory Drug Testing Team arriving on station without notice - locking down the unit - and randomly testing all ranks, he was dancing with the devil.

In nearly four decades of service, I have heard of the odd individual getting caught by CDT having used Marijuana but never any of the drugs more associated with guests of Jeremy Kyle on morning TV weekdays.

It is so irregular, that focus should be placed on why this situation developed to the point it has, setting individual personalities aside. It could as easy be symptomatic of one mans release from the stresses of a decade of warfare as it could the epitomy of individual arrogance. For sure it is better than suicide and if the story is accurately written (& I know how naive that sounds) it appears the individual was beyond caring.

A man, who in other circumstances would be considered a credit to his country, has behaved badly He has been punished and his peers and superiors will no doubt also be in an uncomfortable position.
However, the situation is what it is and the RAF will continue to be the RAF. Talk of 'damage limitation' and worry about how the Army will view the RAF just legitimises the concern that there maybe something more to hide. Contrary to what may appear in the Daily Mail, the British public aren't stupid. They know that humans fail - there are plenty of examples at the moment in politics, banking and commerce - but they also realise that organisations overcome those failings and life goes on.

"An entire organisation can't be held responsible for the actions of one of it's employees"


In the same way the CIA are having to combat adverse publicity right now I suppose. I would think that this chap wasn't really thinking about the potential wider implications for the reputation of the RAF, if caught.

Whilst his act deserved punishment. I suspect there was a trail of signs leading to this outcome. His colleagues may of noticed a change in behaviour or appearance. I would suggest an intelligent man does not go from zero to taking coke in his room in one step. The question for the hierarchy is "why and could we have prevented this"

Deserved everything he got. I'm amazed at some of the comments on the newspaper site condemning the young officer for reporting the incident. How long would it take before his actions started to put lives at risk.

FFS!


He took coke a few times, he is hardly a "junkie!!" and nowhere near an addict. Do you have any idea of just how wide spread the recreational use of this drug is?

It's like calling someone who has drunk a few glasses of whisky an alcoholic.

He was far more foolish in terms of blabbing about it and mentioning it in what seems to be a desire to impress, that, far more than anything else, would worry me about his judgement.

Change of behaviour, appearance? Oh please...............

You sound like you are discussing a heroin addict.

pr00ne
 

sounds like you know a lot about cocaine!!Wonder if the groundcrew that service the aircraft this officer flies in take the same amount ?Mind you a hangover is probably no different than taking"coke"but I have never tried it .

Without checking, I know there have been recent-ish threads about an officer who 'bigged up' his bravery to gain medals; one who allegedly climbed in a window to force himself on a fellow officer; and movers using the coffins of heroes to smuggle stuff.

The armed forces seem to have survived these revelations, and seem able and willing to perpetrate acts of outstanding gallantry as regularly as if they were putting out the rubbish.

I actually feel sorry for the guy (after my initial WTF outrage bus moment subsided)- is he a 'stable extrovert' who has started to struggle?

Very quickly old news I suspect.

CG

pr00ne - Indeed. Sadly comments comparing him to being a 'junkie' or the type one might see on Jeremy Kyle are indicative of a forum where many of the users are either completely stuck in their "in the good old days" ways or are closed-minded to the realities of what goes on outside the wire.

In my day job I regularly meet functional recreational drug users and I'm sure the statistics would confirm that there is a high probability that a number of my colleagues are such individuals too. Just as many folk who work in high stress enviroments use alcohol to blow off steam so to do folk use illicit drugs recreationally. As 'pr00ne' alludes to, this doesn't make them junkies.

Its hard to have any sympathy at all.

He broke the rules & got caught out.

Tiger mate . .. . very well said mate

The ethos of an RAF Officer.

“The distinctive character, spirit and attitude of the RAF which together inspire our people to face challenge, and, on occasion, danger. It is underpinned by tradition, esprit de corps and a sense of belonging. It encompasses the will to contribute to the delivery of effective air power that arises from confidence in the chain of command, trust in colleagues and equipment, respect for individuality, sustainment of high professional standards and the courage to subordinate personal needs for the greater good.”

My highlight. He willingly entered into a career in which you agree to abide by the rules, however out of kilter with the rights of the citizens you defend those rules may be. I could not grow I goatie, wear an earing or travel to certain countries; so I didnt. I knew the fall-out from taking drugs, even weeks after a one-off 'experiment', so I never did 'experiment'.

To make comments that the Armed Forces should be permitted to take recreational drugs because society at large does really is the beginning of the end. Proone IMHO your attitude is one of a.... well lets just say the handle is appropriate.

If there is a medical aspect to this then he deserves support. If it is soley a criminal aspect then he should have gone to jail before dismisal. Few here will know which of these options is appropriate.

THS,

All true, this forum in general is becoming more like a combination of the Daily Mail readers comments and Jeremy Kyle by the day. Similar levels of outrage, ignorance and rushing to judgement and condemnation.

MATELO,

Can't argue with any of that.

Admin-Guru,

Meanwhile, back here in the real world...

I haven't seen ANYONE here suggest that the armed forces should be permitted to take recreational drugs.

A criminal aspect? Go to jail? Get real! So, you would be jailing members of the armed forces for drinking a glass of Whisky, a champagne cocktail, a pint of beer, a glass of wine? They are ALL recreational drugs.

You said it, buster - "and we do not know the full circumstances"; so let's keep our stones pocketed, lest the glass houses start to suffer.


Mister B

"we don't know the full circumstances.." Come on, then. In what circumstances would this have been ok with you?

From his own words it's clear this wasn't any one-off dabbling and I would be more inclined to sympathy if not for the fact that he strongly and repeatedly encouraged younger officers to join in with his "hobby"

It won't.

And he just needs to be clean for 2 years to get a medical.

Even if he were to get a medical there is zero chance of him landing a commercial flying job

On a positive note, I liked the bit about the "threesome". Mess parties have clearly improved since I left!

Maybe not, but it sure will put a huge dent in his future employment opportunities if and when he gets his licence back.

I feel for his son, being divorced, no doubt he is possibly paying maintenance / child support based on his earnings etc.. a source of income that has just disappeared overnight.

Some of the comments on the newspaper thread really do rankle, and as a newspaper thread one does not believe half of the dross they put in them.. One hopes he can put this all behind him and move on.
I totally agree with Tiger Mates comments and rather bizarrely I find myself agreeing with some of Proones, but in the military there is no place for it ever..

We do know the circumstances though, he was taking an illegal drug whilst serving in HM Forces.

I note Cocaine is not listed and good on you for not doing so. Its a Class A drug in the UK and illegal period, the list you quote is acceptable and lawful.

Nobody (I hope) is suggesting any form of drug taking in the Military.
is acceptable. The position has to now been perfectly clear, do drugs your history. I have no problem with that.

I am speaking in general and not about this particular case of which i know nothing.

Admin Guru is spot on. He was military. He was an officer. He was a pilot. He has let himself and his profession down. No sympathy from me.

As much as some would like to think if you have a skill set that is required operators will take you what ever stupidity you have done in the past.

Once past 5 years not living in the UK it won't surface in any checks.

Obviously I do not condone this behaviour. But, if the Daily Rag is correct colleagues (in the plural) reported him. To whom is the question? If it was the RAF Police this was unforgivable. They are not exactly the sharpest box of pencils. They should have had a discrete word with his direct superior and it could have been dealt with in house. If he had a mental/addiction problem this could also have been addressed and if necessary a medical discharge. Now his life has become very difficult, OK his fault but his boss and the Stn Cdr are not exactly smelling of roses. Not their fault of course but we know how things pan out.

I was involved with a situation where a senior officer was drinking and flying. We are not talking drunk or even over the drink driving limit but still against regs. A junior officer had a discrete word with the boss saying that he was not happy and the boss had a descrete word with the perpetrator and it was sorted out. Not even the Stn Cdr knew about it. Or the Daily Mail :cool:

Problem being, there were more than one, one would imagine if a colleague reported it and you didn't, questions would be asked why not.

May have noticed ...

As to cocaine, one of my fellow flight students, back in the early 80's, got caught on a pee test for cocaine. Most of us were a little taken aback -- WTF were you thinking mate? - and of course he was tossed out on his ear.

Flash forward ten years. The training officer at our RAG (type training) has a young LTJG pop positive for cocaine after a standard Monday morning random urinalysis. Most people were very surprised. Then again, he had family up in the Los Angeles area, and lots friends from his younger days, none of whom had chosen the Navy as a profession. Training terminated.

I guess my point is: folks now and again make some stupid decisions. :uhoh:
EDIT:
I just noticed: age 43, divorced, career military officer. That fits the profile for a bit of "out of character" behavior ... well, at least in my experience. Sad, but not the first nor the last.

Actually pr00ne, yes. In the real world many aircrew have been dragged out of the cockpit, tested, charged, sacked, sentenced and jailed.

In Service loyalty and 'there but for the grace of God' has kept incidents hidden. My skipper many years ago was carried by his crew when we should have abandoned out transatlantic flight.

Occasionally, modest class A drug use just does not happen; it is illegal.

[QUOTE=Exascot:8776928]Obviously I do not condone this behaviour. But, if the Daily Rag is correct colleagues (in the plural) reported him. To whom is the question? If it was the RAF Police this was unforgivable. They are not exactly the sharpest box of pencils. They should have had a discrete word with his direct superior and it could have been dealt with in house. If he had a mental/addiction problem this could also have been addressed and if necessary a medical discharge. Now his life has become very difficult, OK his fault but his boss and the Stn Cdr are not exactly smelling of roses. Not their fault of course but we know how things pan out.

Are you seriously suggesting this should have been dealt with 'in the mess' ?

Whatever happened to the simple old days of excessive beer, and sex in the back of a car? :cool:

I regret I have no sympathy for the individual.

As to how/where it should be reported, I guess I would have informed his Boss [privately].

Did I say that? Of course not in the CO's office :ugh:

Exactly the same as would happen if it had been an SAC?