From 1960,Who is this pilot and is he still around!!
 

He's always looked like Elvis to me. ( I remember the ad well- RAF flying Review & Air Pictorial)

Within six months!!!!


This was clearly before the advent of training blocks, holding postings and all the other impediments thrown across the path to the RAF Flying Badge. Officer training at Kirton in Lindsay or South Cerney by 1960, of 12 weeks?? Ground School and then dual leading to a solo, lucky S**.


The spin looks good too. Flt Lt at 25 with full allowances, suggests that the guy has married and draws the full rate of MA .


A couple of years later, one of my long standing friends was in a follow up campaign entitled "Seven Days in the Life of ???????????". Fifty years later he is still not allowed to forget it!!


Old Duffer

Interesting to see that the highest mandatory qualifications required are 'O' levels in maths and English!

That's because they wanted us young in those days! The salary figures look good and did not change for years as I recall. First month came to £28 but they did feed and house us for free!:ok:

I was born the year before this and in April 1978 I went to Dartmouth as an SL(P) Midshipmite.

I soloed in November, seven months later, but only in a Chipmunk at Roborough on Grading :ok:

I'd finished my first tour by then - despite Duncan Sandys.

When I was a Flt Cdr at Halton there was an ill-advised campaign to recruit apprentices using the tag-line "Become an Aerocrat" quickly paraphrased to Aerocr*p! Re stumbling blocks to progress through the training machine there were some very nice "Holding Posts". One colleague of mine got 6 months as ADC to the Governor of the Turks and Caicos Islands, and another was given a Meteor conversion and 3 months target towing in Singapore!

Managed just under 6 months - joined 16 Apr 63 JP solo 10 Oct 63. Nothing to do with me - just the system running smoothly with no stops. Not long after this there were extensive holding periods for all. At that time I took a few days over 3 years to a Lightning Sqn and so the timings in '60 were probably better as only 1 OCU needed.

If you took a look at 1960 O level Maths and English papers you might not be so surprised. Certainly O level maths would equip you with most of the mathematical skills required as a pilot or navigator, although I am sure those very few who got into test flying would need something more advanced.

I remember at nav school I regularly scored highest on our course in the frequent mental arithmetic tests and used to pull the leg of one on our course who was a maths graduate about this (I passed O level maths in 1964). He pointed out that that there was more to maths than arithmetic, but I used to say that mental arithmetic was a much more valuable skill to a nav than the ability to understand differential calculus.

Heres another one from the period. I know him well and his lack of A levels or a maths degree certainly didnt hold him back! Terrific pilot - good enough to be entrusted with the BBMF Lancaster for a tour!

http://www.vforcereunion.co.uk/image...rew-1963-4.jpg

I fit the timescale of that advert although I thought I wrote to Wg Cdr M A D'Arcy not the Gp Capt. 6 months and 20 days from joining to first solo and that was in the terrible winter of 1962/3. More importantly 25 months from joining to being posted to my first Vulcan squadron.

This was at a time when the system worked because the RAF needed the aircrew. Holding postings were virtually unheard of!

ACW

Well it worked for me!
South Cerney 18 Jan 1960 - solo at Syerston 8 Jul 1960.

Six months and twenty days for me, and that included the better part of two month's holding. The education requirements are correct, and it was only two of the subjects at "A" level to qualify for Cranwell. By the time I turned twenty-one I'd done the JP course, a helicopter course, been on a squadron for a few weeks (they cut establishment, and the newbies were the cut), held on another squadron, type conversion and seven months overseas service with yet another squadron.

There was a bad period mid 57 for a while until things settled after Sandys' proclamation. My course after wings at Swinderby in June 57 were all sent home on indefinite leave. After six weeks they sent us to Valley for Vampire continuation training. After four months of that we dribbled off to OCUs. After our Hunter OCU finished in Jan 58, four of us were sent on a ground tour because we were direct entry and only Cranwell graduates were allowed to go to flying jobs.

A ground job after doing all that was necessary to pass a single seat Hunter OCU in those days was hard to accept. So after a few weeks of this, two of us went to Bently Priory one sports afternoon and posted the four of us back to Chivenor, which had 64 Hunters and no studes worth talking about. This worked fine for a while until the system caught up and we had the inevitable interview with the Station Commander. After some pretend (it didn't seem pretend to us at all) very serious comments about interfering with Her Majesty's posting process, Group Captain Pleasance said it was the best thing he had heard of since WWII and asked if we would all like to go to Hunter squadrons.

That man (a WWII commander) knew that the motivation of the troops in a military unit mattered and we were motivated.

As they were for the FAA in 1982 when I joined (just five of them too). Allegedly the chop rate went through the roof when the Crabs went to graduates only, but I don't suppose that is easily proven.

Don't think the RAF ever went to graduate-only.

5 O-levels required when I joined but it appears to be 2 A-levels now.

What a great story. Shows bravado and initiaitive.

The only way to do that today would be to become some geeky cyber-hacker as postings (sorry, assignments these days) are all done electronically. Although I dare say some in Manning might be able to swing some choice assignments...

2 A levels now leaves you less well prepared than 5 'O'levels did then.

The RAF made no great use of its graduate aircrew. Mostly one just pointed out where the groundschool was wrong.

"If you're clever enough to spot the error in the question, you're clever enough to work out what answer the examiner wants, Fox" was an excellent put-down I received once for being a smart-arse.

Well it's still 5 O-levels (GCSEs) as well as the A-levels, and including English and Maths as before. Or do you mean that O-levels then were worth something, compared with now?

WIWAL (when I were a lad) the timetable was a little different.
Since holding postings didn’t feature, the training was fairly efficient:
First solo was on a Provost T1, the JP not yet being in service.
06 Sep 54 Inducted Cardington
10 Sep 54 ITS Kirton-in-Lindsey
07 Dec 54 3FTS Feltwell, first solo 31 Dec 54
24 Aug 55 8 FTS Swinderby, wings 09 May 56
27 May 56 233 OCU Pembrey first Hunter F1 flight 10 Jul 56 (my 20th birthday)
29 Aug 56 98 Sqn Jever
From catching the train to Cardington, time to;-
First solo almost 17 weeks
First Squadron not quite 2 years.
Sadly, Duncan Sandys spoiled it all on 27 Jul 57 and I suppose the next 30 months at Halton waiting to rejoin the flying RAF could count as a holding posting.

Well, we still don't know who the fellow in the OP is.


He looks like Rick Nelson to me. He even sang about it:




He probably had shorter hair then.

WURH - I just love that story: I am still chuckling

The RAF never went to 'gaduates only' for its aircrew. Furthermore the chop rate amongst graduates (or at least those who had been through the UAS system) was way lower than it was for DEs.

Indeed there were 11 of us on my BFTS cse, all of us UAS graduates. All of us passed the cse which was not only the short JP cse, but an experimentally shortened short JP cse. Of the 11, one withdraw from training at AFTS (and went on to become something in the City), the other 10 of us all received our wings.

That sounds like a 'Whacky Wheeler' ism!

@ Vim Fuego :)

The five O-level entry was for a direct entry commission on the supplementary list for 16 years or to 38th birthday with terminal grant & pension, whichever was later, with opportunities to leave with a gratuity after five years (for some, not Hunter pilots though) clutching £750, eight years (£1,500) or 12 years (£3,000). Promotion was only to Sdn Ldr, with possibilities of selection for a permanent commission on the general list (possible promotion to the highest ranks), or a permanent commission on the supplementary list (possibly to Wg Cdr). Cadet entry to the general list needed 2 A-levels.

Much more important NCO aircrew such as yourself needed O-level Eng. Lang. and Maths only. ;)

I must have been lucky. Started at Kirton Lindsey Oct 1st 1955, still aged 17. First solo at High Ercall (Ternhill satellite) Provost OT492 March 2nd 1956 = 5 months and one day.
Everything ran smoothly until Duncan Sandys wielded his bloody axe and cancelled my Hunter course in November 1957.

Bassingbourne OCU over the winter of 1961/62. I shared a billet with a flying officer doing the PR course. I think I have remembered his name and would venture it if someone really wanted to know.

He seemed to have been peculiarly blessed, having either 'O' levels or even possibly no 'O' levels at all. He had blagged a five year commission, which must always have seemed to the P staff to be a bad return on the training costs. On top of that he got a first tour on PR. And he outranked me.

He had bags of personality for sure. I think he could have expected a permanent commission soon enough, to justify the wild card the system had given him. I believe he spoiled this blessed progression by barging through some power cables in a fiord somewhere, although I do not how he did after that.

Out of interest was there an OASC type experience to get through or was it a check of aforementioned 'O' levels, medical and flash of the old school tie before the de-baggings could commence?

Interesting. In '63 only 5 O levels required which for me were 5 standard grade school certificates as I was in Nairobi. Went to Aden for medicals and arrived at Cerney in Apr 63. 5 standard grades seemed to be OK as I went on to ETPS and ended up on the staff. So academic qualifications were not the only requirement. In fact I recall Brawdy becoming known as the Graduate Exit Scheme due to the chop rate!

I went through the OASC at RAF Hornchurch in 1955 and seem to remember it lasted two or three days. Usual medical and aptitude tests followed by group leadership exercises on the last day. Daedelus House tests at Cranwell in 1954 followed a similar pattern, but I wasn't good enough at that time.

ExAscoteer

You are correct overall, however in the mid 70s there was considerable disquiet at HQTC regarding the comparative suspension rates at Cranwell vs Leeming following the introduction of the Objective System of Flying Training. The CFI at Cranwell fought our corner well and HQTC backed off. Once a few courses had progressed through Valley he was seen to be fully justified as it became apparent that the Cranwell GE product was 3 times more likely to be successful at the next stage of training than the students coming from Leeming at that time.

I never liked the phrase "Chop early, chop often" as it sounded rather harsh and we were after all there to teach and get people through training , not remove them. However with the benefit of hindsight early decisions were probably best for all concerned although some on the receiving end may not have felt it at the time.

YS

As a national serviceman I reported to Padgate on 28Nov49 and did my first solo in a Prentice on 27Jun50. However this did entail a trip to Hornchurch for aircrew selection, a few days back at Padgate waiting for the results, a detachment for a week at Driffield (the smell of avtur from the Vampires), Christmas leave and then report to Wittering on 27Dec49 (No 1 ITS) until Easter when the whole outfit moved to Jurby, and finally to 6 FTS TernHill at the end of May. On 28 Dec I broke my right wrist and on 9Jan51 I flew my first Harvard famil with a plaster cast on it and a couple of weeks later my first solo on type. The cast stayed on for six weeks. The course finished the following May and after a weeks leave holding for a few days at Feltwell before off to Valley at the end of June for the Vampire (solo) and Meteor (dual) AFS then at the beginning of Oct to Chivenor for a Vampire OCU. On 28 Nov I became a civilian again, so they certainly packed a lot in in those two years. A few months later I rejoined the Service.


After a tour as a QFI I went to Pembrey , completed the OCU course, and was sent to 11 Gp, Uxbridge for an exercise, there being no postings in the offing. Like John Farley I took the opportunity to chat to the postings chap in his office who told me that 34 Sqn was about to reform at Tangmere. Would I like to go there? I remember getting a bollocking back at Pembrey for circumventing the usual channels but it all turned out well !

Oh dear Vim-Fuego - you'll be suggesting we bought our commissions next!

Did my OASC at Biggin Hill. I did the usual thing with oil drums and planks trying to get my team across an imaginary ravine. I hadnt a clue how to do it (maybe it was impossible) but I figured if I looked as though I knew what I was doing and kept everyone busy for the allotted 10 minutes or so then I might convince the DS.

I got through anyway!

(btw doubt if anyone would have recognised the tie from my unremarkable north country grammar school!)

That was where I went wrong then. I saw the solution to mine more or less straight away and finished it in twenty minutes. (We were alloted thirty minutes as I remember) They weren't impressed because I hadn't shouted at anyone or gee'd them up. Didn't need to, I told them what to do and they did it, and I had a north country Grammar School accent and tie too...:)

Paul Dandecker?

TTN

And he went to ETPS. But that was a mistake in the selection process: they thought he had a maths degree!

- he went through BFTS JP in 1966.

Pontifex - I'm sure he would have walked a maths degree if he'd ever bothered to take one ;)

Another advert a couple of years later said you could become a Vulcan captain by 23! Too young for marriage allowance and a quarter but old enough to bomb Moscow.

I knew at least one 23 year old captain in 1964.

I was led to believe that in the 60s it was just about possible for an FAA SL (P) to be CDQ before he made Sub Lt - the 2ic of RN EFTS in the late 70s was one, I was told.

20 and still a Middy and in the front seat - could it get better in the world of aviation? There could even have been a 19 y/o.

John Eacott may be able to expand/confirm this?